Am I chasing RFI video ghosts / being too critical?

[rocko]

Here is my 1st post/Link to .avi video uploaded to cdn4 server (hope this works) that has been bugging me for a long time...

It's my AVTool 8710 test pattern with VCR input, and out to ATI 9600XT. you may have to zoom in 2x/4x or 8x to see the (RFI?) Interference. I'm concerned it will affect my VHS Capture?" I was able to further reduce this Video Noise by dis-connecting Input cable between Mitsubishi VCR and AVTool...Think the Culprit be may be the Mitsubishi HS-HD 2000U VHS deck. Need to Shield the power cord? and/or move everything (Capture System) to a different location in the house, No Big deal since my Win XP/VCR/AVTool are all on one rolling office cart.

http://cdn4.digitalfaq.com/rockovids...-StillRFI).avi

......Server Not Found Error...I must have done something wrong,Can Admin Fix?..I'm still only 1/4 Geek!

[lordsmurf]

Several things here:

- This is purely an audio error. There was no need to upload a video capture of a test pattern. This could easily have been an attached WAV file, which is smaller and easier to upload + download.

- That error is horrible. You're NOT being overly critical.

- You need to see if the VCR or the TBC is at fault. If either is the culprit, then the input have likely been separate from the boards, meaning a solder repair job will be needed. For example, the JVC HR-S9x00 units have a somewhat delicate s-video jack, as I learned the hard way. It's on reason I now permanently use a small extension, that always stays in the unit. And then I plug/unplug cables from the extensions. This is now done on all expensive equipment (TBCs, VCRs, proc amps).

- However, I'd guess it's actually a cabling issue. Cable often go bad. I throw out several per year, and have to get new ones. FYI, this is another issue that makes "tape death" or "disc rot" a moot point. Hardware dies decades before media does. And eventually, you can't find or even repair the hardware.

- Yeah, still just 25%, but you're a solid quarter.

[rocko]

Thanks L.S...I was just focusing on the Video part, Because as soon as a I hit PLAY on VCR, That horrible audio noise dis-appears, and audio from (Soundblaster SB Live Value) card sounds quiet...I up-loaded the sample in .AVI format because the "squiggly" lines on test pattern are hard to see on normal zoom, but are more visible if you zoom it a bit...However your answer did help me remember, that there is a 2nd/duplicate set of s-video/audio outputs on the VCR which I have not tried yet!..Plus I was thinking that the audio noise is from the un-used TV tuner/capture portion of ATI/MMC/AIW card b-4 hitting play on VCR, It's just like a tv signal w/o the antanna?

[lordsmurf]

The tuner should not affect the other inputs at all. In fact, I don't know that it's possible.

[rocko]

I don't mean to appear like a scmarty-pants, and I do take all advice given here, I will also look into the audio/cable part again, but my original post was concerning the faint, (hard to see) cross-hatch/wiggly pattern, if you can turn audio off, and expand/zoom the video portion, it becomes more visible..How-ever I will move along, and next upload I do later should be MPEG, of an actual successful capture!,and no more Huge Files!

[msgohan]

Looks like Y/C crosstalk.

Try capturing composite instead. If the problem goes away, that's evidence pointing toward this issue. Then the next step would be to try different S-Video cable(s).

[sanlyn]

It's dot crawl. Often seen with AVT's thru all inputs. My first AVT did that back in 2004. But I've seen worse from other AVT's.

Most noticeable in the bands that separate the color panels. Other than dot crawl there are very subtle color errors in the secondaries -- but they could all be due to other components in your capture setup. Except for the cot crawl/crosstalk, you won't get results that look as pure as a pro setup. Your average frame rate is 29.9643 fps. A capture of an actual piece of tape might give different results. I should add that other than the factors mentioned, the AVT color bars have nothing to do with the the levels or color balance of your tapes.

Do we really need 31.87 seconds of that signal? You would have a slightly smaller .AVI without the audio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockovids

next upload I do later should be MPEG, of an actual successful capture!,and no more Huge Files!

Don't do that, unless your purpose is to ask us to analyze an encoding problem. If your question is about the appearance of your capture or suggestions for processing, submit unprocessed lossless samples, please. 10 seconds or so with some amount of movement in the video should be plenty, which would be a smaller file. Of course, you can make it any size you want.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockovids

but my original post was concerning the faint, (hard to see) cross-hatch/wiggly pattern, if you can turn audio off, and expand/zoom the video portion,

Ah, didn't know that. The most immediate error was the horrible audio. It seems an AVI was needed after all. So I've taken another look:

It's not crosstalk or dot crawl. It's some sort of faint pattern that completely disappears with motion. Dot crawl and crosstalk don't disappear. I've seen from an AVT-8710 (the old green/black good model!), but it's not always present. I've never been able to pinpoint it. I'd actually captured some tests for a guide on the weaknesses and imperfections of TBCs, but I've not yet had time to write that.

This noise does completely disappear after encoding to MPEG or H.264.

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

It's not crosstalk or dot crawl. It's some sort of faint pattern that completely disappears with motion. Dot crawl and crosstalk don't disappear. I've seen from an AVT-8710 (the old green/black good model!), but it's not always present. I've never been able to pinpoint it.

I've never been able to pinpoint it either from my old AVT-8710. It does appear under some circumstances infrequently -- the critter is getting a bit cranky in its old age, I guess, usually at the very start of a capture. I power it off and back on, and all is well. Not bad, for something 10 years old after heavy use and being dropped twice.

The sample capture has no motion. I question the use of colorbars anyway, other than to check if the AVT or the capture chain is actually sending a decent signal. They can't be used to calibrate a capture from tape. Colorbars or not, every tape needs different settings. I use the luminance meter in my PA-100 and double-check with Avisynth's Levels histogram, browsing some minutes of tape before starting a capture. I rarely adjust color during capture -- it really doesn't pan out very well with VHS, which changes color balance with almost every scene. I have had some old crappy tapes that were obviously too green or something from start to finish or oversaturated, but that's not common. For home-made tapes from a camera, it's a different story. I've had camcorder tapes with AGC and auto white balance turned on that required me to make two or three captures at different proc amp settings so I could pick out the least problematic samples from each capture and join them later.

It's a good thing, though, that the O.P. is making some tests to get a feeling for how his equipment behaves.

The usual recommendation for JVC machnes is to use the "EDIT" picture mode.

[rocko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Ah, didn't know that. The most immediate error was the horrible audio. It seems an AVI was needed after all.

It's not crosstalk or dot crawl. It's some sort of faint pattern that completely disappears with motion.

This noise does completely disappear after encoding to MPEG or H.264.

I was so focused on the faint pattern, (The Ghost?) that I completely forgot about the audio part of my sample!..sorry for that!..Hard to see, but still something there, that might interfere/(make even worse) my already inherently noisy VHS Tapes from the 1990's!....Good to know if it goes away during MPEG Encoding?...This sample was taken with VHS deck turned off, but connected to AVT 8710-to ATI AIW/MMC in TV/Capture mode,thus enabling the .avi file capture...I am doing process of elimination in capture chain..:VCR RFI Nioise?..or AVToolbox Black box(Purchased about 2010,but barely used yet), or ATI 9600XT? making this pattern?...I Did do a test with only AVToolbox Out to MONITOR, and plugged/unplugged input side of AVT,...The faint pattern semmed to be less noticeable with Nothing plugged into the Input side of AVToolbox.

[rocko]

Quote:

Don't do that, unless your purpose is to ask us to analyze an encoding problem. If your question is about the appearance of your capture or suggestions for processing, submit unprocessed lossless samples, please. 10 seconds or so with some amount of movement in the video should be plenty, which would be a smaller file. Of course, you can make it any size you want.

Thank you sanlyn, .avi is the only Lossless file format that I know of right now. I'm Still learning! (only 1/18th status Video geek here!) And I was wondering why it took 1.5 hours to up-load a 30 second .avi file, and a real pain in the arse (TIME) for someone else to download!...(would be a good thing to add to DFAQ file upload suggestions?..for us semi-pro 1/18th status video geeks?..and Happy St.Patties day!

[rocko]

Thanks all of you for your input!..And as they say in Drug/Alcohol/Hot-Wheels A-Holic Rehab meetings: Take with you what you can use...And Leave the rest...All of the advice and suggestions I have followed from this site so-far, have been very Up-Front/Honest and, for me have yielded some great VHS-to-PC results, However one Must Keep in mind, there are many situations/hardware/software set-ups that are subject to each individuals willingness to admit that there might be denial/problems/$$ in their own environment/set-up that is preventing that "Perfect Capture" (Hardware/PC/CABLES..??..This is a complicated yet simple thing.."I Spent $$$ on that S-Video Cable/ATI Card"..ETC...Always Double Check Your Rig First!...of course there is always the local media conversion place that wants $20.00 per VHS tape. So if you have a passion for Video and a few $$ to spend over a few years (As I have done with Music gear and now Video) then hang in there!..If you don't have the patience, then pay a pro to transfer yer stuff!

[rocko]

Lordsmurf happy Saint patties day, and can you please change the "AUDIO" ghosts to "VIDEO" ghosts in my original thread title?That someone changed, or altered, due to NOMAD MUST STERILIZE CARBON UNITS INFESTING EARTH!!.Thanx..Jim B