Canopus ADVC-110 vs. Elgato Video Capture

[Rafa_Chaves]

Hello everybody,

after my last thread, I've learned that a Mac is not the proper tool for video capture.

But unfortunately, it's the only one I have and will have to do the job somehow.

Well, at this point, I have three options, considering budget, time & energy I want to invest:

1. Take the tapes to a rental house and authorize them to transfer to DVD using a VCR DVD combo recorder.
(I don't know the model of the unit, but probably is not one with Lsi chipset) They charge R$30 (BRZ currency) for 2 hours os footage. It's equivalent to U$10 for every two hours.

2. Capture with Elgato Video Capture - resulting in H264 or MPEG4 files, that's the format I want. Is this better than the crappy Avermedia AverCapture M? U$75

3. Capture with Canopus ADVC-110 - than I'll have to convert DV to smaller files in H264, and deintelace.... A lot of work. U$175 or less if I buy used.

My goal is convert VHS to digital, not necessarily DVD. I want to access the files easily. I'll be using my Sony VCR in good shape.

I know neither of these 3 options are the best! I know that is recommended to buy a JVC S-VHS VCR, a TBC and ATi AIW card. This set will be very difficult to find and will cost me way more. I have found an AIW X800XT AGP 8X in great shape, but I don't have a PC to stick it. And the S-VHS and the TBC will be almost impossible to find here in Brazil.

So, back to reality, once I only have those 3 options, which one is the least worse?

Thanks a lot!

[dpalomaki]

Can't speak to the Elgato, but the US$75 price point and 640x480 (or 640x360 for wide screen) resolution and 1.4 Mbps data rate (per the web page) do not inspire my confidence. (Digital SD NTSC TV is nominally 720x480, and PAL is 720x576). The file would likely be unsuitable for further editing or image restoration in any meaningful way. But if that file format meets your requirement...

I would expect the ADVC to provide a better output for editing or restoration, but at that $175 price point I would consider the BlackMagic Intensity products if you can use them with your existing system. They do not require you to resurrect an old PC.

However, you might want to give the local service a try by taking a typical, but not crucial, tape to them and evaluating the results. If they meet your requirements, and the cost is within reason considering the amount of material you have, you may have the solution you need. Further, you may be able to negotiate with them deliver the file format you want as opposed to a video DVD.

[lordsmurf]

A cheap "conversion mill" that uses crappy DVD recorders and VCRs won't be any good. Don't do that.

"MPEG-4" is not a format. H.264 is the format, housed in MP4 containers.

But no, that's a terrible capture method. Tape capture should only be done to uncompressed, lossless, DV, or MPEG-2. In some cases, depending on hardware, the lossy ProRes422 is fine. Never capture to H264. It will look awful on even a modest sized SDTV, to say nothing of modern larger HDTV screens.

I think the Canopus DV method would be best for capture, in your situation. But I would also not ruin the video by deinterlacing and converting to H.264. If you do that, then it's just as bad as a cheap DVD recorder. It's just going to screw everything up, and leave you with videos that are borderline tolerable (or intolerable) to watch. Watching the original VHS would be better.

I've been too scared off from the bad Blackmagic faults to be willing to try them anymore. It's not worth the headache. I'd rather deal with DV loss, because at least that's a known issue. The unreported frame drops from a Blackmagic are insidious.

[Rafa_Chaves]

Ok. So let's go with Canopus DV box. But once i capture using the ADVC-110, the files will be so big. I cannot store all the tapes on my hard drive forever at this size. What to do next? After captured, can i convert to H264?

If i don't deinterlace, i'll have to watch the videos always on VLC, which will deinterlace them, correct?

[lordsmurf]

External hard drive. eSATA is your friend.

A 2tb drive holds about 140 hours of video. So do the math. It would hold 70 SP mode VHS tapes.

Drives are cheap. A 2tb Fantom = $100 USD, and is a great drive.

Yes, I said 2tb. Drives larger than 2tb have many issues with many systems. Pay close attention to what your system will handle. Some only support 3tb/4tb/etc via USB, not anything else.

But again, you're on Mac. You have less options. Fantom also has Firewire drives. It's often not fast enough to capture directly to the drive without frame drops, but fine for transferring already-captured footage. Thunderbolt is probably still expensive, being a Mac-only drive spec.

Deinterlacers get better every few years. If you hard deinterlace it now, it will forever be stuck. By leaving it interlaced, software playback deinterlacers are used. What VLC has now is superior to even some method founds in NLEs and encoders. In 2 more years, it'll surely be better yet again.

Aside from that, the only decent deinterlacers (not playback) are in Avisynth, Again, that means Windows, not Mac.

[Rafa_Chaves]

Wow, but really? The best option is keep the content uncompressed forever? But I wanted to share this with friends & family online...

To burn on a DVD after capturing, i'll have to convert the files manually or the DVD burning software will do that?

[lordsmurf]

Don't screw up the original. Make a low-quality copy to share online.

You'll have to convert manually no matter what you do. DVD is one spec (DVD-Video) and format (MPEG-2), and sites like Vimeo and Youtube are all different. It's H.264, but it's not the same. It's not even the same spec year to year. Old Youtube specs are even accepted anymore. But if you have a quality master, you can make what's needed.

You can also shave some size off the DV by encoding the 15mbps MPEG-2 (Blu-ray spec). It won't save a ton of room, but you'll be at around 9gb/hour instead of DV's 13/gb hour. So instead of 70 hours per 2tb, you're at 100.

I always tell others that it's their video (hopefully), and they can screw it up if they want. But that's not what I'd do, and I'm giving you the best info on how to balance quality with space saving (compression). You already not dealing with "large" files. Huffyuv AVI lossless is 35gb/hour, and uncompressed is 75gb/hour. So suddenly 9gb/hour isn't that bad. Not to forget that 1 hard drive is tons smaller than 50 VHS tapes.

[Rafa_Chaves]

Man, i'm terrified about how difficult is to capture VHS with top quality.

I think i'm just gonna buy a Lsi Chipset DVD recorder. It will be easier. I found a JVC-MV1S refurbished in new condition.

I don't know what to do anymore.

[premiumcapture]

I use a Mac, just run bootcamp and you get all the Windows benefits.

Ultimately, it comes down to time and budget. It can eat both forever, so it's good to set some objectives before you start.

Captured MPEG-2 vs. lossless is not as bad as H.264 and if you don't re-encode it can be acceptable. Prores is probably the best option besides lossless.

http://www.diamondmm.com/vc500mac-di...e-usb-mac.html

This can do ProRes on Mac, and the Windows version works fine with VirtualDub. With TBC + good VCR it might run $500.

[Rafa_Chaves]

Thanks! But how is this different than Elgato Video Capture or Avermedia AverCapture M? It actually looks worse.

[breezetdk]

I use the elgato on pc and mac and it does excellent conversions that even look good on a 70" TV. The only problem I have had with it is that really bad quality tapes sometimes cause the audio to get out of sync. If you are just wanting to preserve your tapes you will definitely be happy with the quality. The quality is pretty much WYSIWYG so if your tapes look good, your videos will look good.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by breezetdk

I use the elgato on pc and mac and it does excellent conversions that even look good on a 70" TV. The only problem I have had with it is that really bad quality tapes sometimes cause the audio to get out of sync. If you are just wanting to preserve your tapes you will definitely be happy with the quality. The quality is pretty much WYSIWYG so if your tapes look good, your videos will look good.

Audio sync problems + bad video = you're getting drooped frames. You need a TBC.

WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) quality is actually not very good. Tape can easily be improved during a capture process by simply using the right hardware (VCR, TBC, capture card). Many of us do it on a regular basis.

[breezetdk]

The dropped frames causing the audio to be out of sync is because of old, damaged or very poor quality tapes and it hardly ever happens to me and I convert a lot of tapes. I am getting excellent quality video from the elgato. At least as good as what would be seen by playing the tape directly and for the purposes of converting and keeping your home videos safe, that is more than good enough. At least that is what I thought this post was originally about. He can use the elgato with his existing equipment and it is very user friendly for conversion as well as setup. I have been considering trying the advc-110, but the sync issue is so rare that I just don't think it is worth the time and money for me to add a firewire card, cable, canopus and maybe even new software if everything I already have doesn't work the way I want it to. I might be off track here, but most of these other posts sound like they are looking for proffessional quality captures for working with the videos afterwards, not just watching them. It sounds to me like he justs wants good quality for a good price and to be able to share with ease and that is exactly what the elgato can do.