Quantcast ATI/Premiere file import problem - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
07-08-2004, 02:42 AM
jla314 jla314 is offline
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Total Newbie says Hi!
Just had my hard drive completely wiped and XP reinstalled by Pros ($$$). System finally crashed from too much installing and reinstalling software. So, I don't want to do any uninstalling without your advice.

WANT TO: capture 8mm and VHS analog home movies; convert them to digital; edit in Premiere; burn final files to DVDs for relatives.

PAST PROBLEM: Was able to capture video and audio using ATI TV--and play back OK using Windows Media Player/ATI's player. When same file imported into Premiere...video and audio on a single track (video). Could not edit audio. Video editing in Premiere OK. New file save in Premiere only saved video.

1. Please suggest best ATI software for this usage.
2. Please help me locate it (if an earlier version). ATI's site is not intuitive. I always get redirected to the most current version of their software although I try to find earlier versions.
3. Please suggest best file format for capture (AVI?) for import into Premiere. I was using MPEG-2 which you say is a poor choice.
4. Can I do a capture directly from Premiere. If so, what do I need?

Yours,
Judy Almendariz

P.S. Sorry if this is a repetitious request...but all of this is very confusing for me. I've had more than one headache over this matter--especially when Adobe and ATI had me bouncing back and forth for days on the phone.


ATI SOFTWARE: mmc-9-0-0-0, mmc-8-1-0-0-dao-mdac, wxp-w2k-catalyst-8-01-040421a-01, atiCDwiz-V2-1
SYSTEM: Athlon 2600+, 1.92GH, 512MB, 75 MB disk (63MB free); DirectX 9.0b; ATI All-In-Wonder Pro 9800; Sound Blaster Live; Premiere Pro 1.5; XP Home.
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  #2  
07-08-2004, 03:18 AM
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I have two possible methods for you. Give me a few days to get all the images I'll need and write some descriptions.

Your hardware and software look perfect. (And you probably mean GB not MB on the hard drive.) Don't change anything.

I'm using Premiere 6.5 (no reason for me to update, mine is fine), so things may differ slightly, you'll have to let me know if it does. I'm also on ATI MMC 9.0 on my main system, one of the better MMC's for sure.

As far as "editing audio" what are you wanting to do? Premiere is a video editor, not an audio editor. You can add in audio tracks, and somewhat change it, but it's not a huge audio program. I use Sony Pictures SoundForge 6.0 for all my audio editing. It's the "photoshop" of sound.

Adobe also has Adobe Audition for audio, but it's a new software, based on CoolEdit that it bought out. I was never impressed by CoolEdit, have used SoundForge since version 4.0.

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  #3  
07-11-2004, 02:27 PM
jla314 jla314 is offline
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Hi Lordsmurf,

I've only used ATI software for analog video/audio capture to date. My captures play back just fine in ATI's player and Windows Media Player.

I've tried to capture two different types of files (MPEG-2 and AVI) with the same result in Premiere. Once the files are imported into Premiere, they no longer have audio. The audio gets lost upon importation. So, any clips edited in Premiere that are saved contain the video changes...but no sound.

Premiere divides my capture files into two components (a video track and an audio track). The audio track always comes in blank. There is no sound image on the track at all. If I play the clip in the source monitor...I hear sound. If I choose to play the clip in the Program monitor, there is no sound.

I have imported a generic MPEG-2 file that I located on the net (not through ATI capture) into Premiere. The file came in with two viable tracks. The audio track contained sound. I actually could see the image on the audio track. When I say image...I'm talking about all those vertical jagged lines. And, I could edit that audio track. The edited track did play in the program monitor w/changes.

My sound editing needs are minimal. Premiere Pro meets those needs.

But the big problem is that I can't seem to import any audio into Premiere.

Bye,
Judy
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  #4  
07-12-2004, 11:37 AM
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Is this MP2 audio format, or WAV audio format, that you're capturing in ATI MMC?

And then again, what was the audio format of the track you got off the net? MP3 or something else?

Audio is not audio is not audio.

I'm thinking you cannot import MPEG Layer II audio into Premiere, but I'm not sure yet. Because I have the Ligos LSX encoder on my computer, I can open up MPEG video and audio anywhere in any video program that uses the DirectShow filters.


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  #5  
07-13-2004, 03:22 AM
jla314 jla314 is offline
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Good Morning,
Not sure what you mean about MP2 audio.

AM using the composite connector in the ATI setup. The only captures I have made to date--were made with ATI's standard presets. I tried the DVD high with 48.00KHz 16 bit stereo. I made a copy of it with 48.00KHz 16 bit mono and tried that too. I tried the AVI Good. All these presets give the same result.

Since I am able to capture video and audio with the ATI software and play it back...I get the impression that something isn't recorded quite right for Premiere. Premiere can't seem to recognize that there is an audio portion in these files.

My captures were of a family trip (8mm w/video & audio). I did tried captures from old VHS tapes. OK in Media Player and ATI's player.

I don't have the MP2 file that I downloaded from the net any longer. It was an noncopyrighted, amateur movie with Star Wars theme. This file contained video and audio. All I know is that it was an MP2 file. And on import--it divided up in to the two component tracks in Premiere.

I'm afraid I don't understand about the Ligos encoder.

Thanx Judy
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  #6  
07-13-2004, 09:11 AM
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Audio and video are handled separately.
Some files hold audio only. For example, MPEG Layer III (MP3) audio.
Some files hold video only. For example, MPEG Video (MPV) files.
Some files can hold both. For example, AVI and MPEG.

Files that hold both audio and video are called "muxed" or "multiplexed" or "program streams". Files that only hold one thing (audio OR video) are called "elementary streams".

Actually, AVI is not a "file" but a container that holds video and/or audio. Saying "I have an AVI" is like telling your mechanic "I have a car and need new tires". Much like he has to know the model-year-make or the car, we need to know the specs of the audio and video inside the AVI. On my AVI guides, I mostly use raw YUY2 video, MJPEG video, or HuffYUV video ... and then PCM (WAV) audio. They are bundled and saved into the same file, the AVI.

MPEG is a video format, but it can also be merged with an audio format. An MPEG can be mixed with PCM (WAV or AIFF), Dolby AC3, or MPEG Layer audio (MP2 is supported by the DVD spec, MP3 is not).

MPEG = generic name for any MPEG, normally has both audio and video
MPG = generic name (Windows .3 extension), same as MPEG
MPV = MPEG video, normally an M1V video file, but can also be M2V
M1V = MPEG-1 video
M2V = MPEG-2 video
MP1 = does not exist, would mean MPEG Layer I audio
MP2 = MPEG Layer II audio
MP3 = MPEG Layer III audio, not supported by DVD
MPA = MPEG Layer audio, usually MP2

Whatever file you had downloaded may not have had the same audio type as the files you are now working with.

I would seriously suggest not using the ATI presets. They were made by techs, not people with video experience, so many of the settings and attributes of the files are completely wrong for DVD creation. Worse than that, many of those settings will create horrible quality video. The guides on digitalFAQ.com will show you how to make your own preset for future use. It's not too hard, guides have MANY images to help you.

Adobe Premiere does not support many files outside the native AVI codec spec. MPEG is one such format. In order to use MPEG video and/or audio, you typically need an MPEG Encoder or MPEG plug-in to make it work. I've never had these problems because I bought Adobe Premiere 5.1 with the program LSX MPEG Encoder, which uses a Ligos MPEG codec on my system. It added support for Premiere to use MPEG. I now use Premiere 6.5, and have both LSX and the newer software MainConcept MPEG Encoder, as well as Canopus Procoder (Premiere Plug-in).

My best guess is still that your system cannot import MPEG audio. By some fluke, it will import MPEG video.

ATI MMC only has two settings called "Good". One is the ATI VCR format, which will only play in ATI MMC Player. It is not an AVI or even a true MPEG. It is a proprietary format made by ATI. You cannot edit this. The other option is MPEG-2 "Good" which uses some very poor settings, in addition to MP2 audio.

You may need to contect Adobe and ask them what Adobe Premiere Pro needs in order to open an MPEG files and import onto the timeline, both audio and video.

Honestly, your best bet is to recapture, using the ATI AVI guide on digitalFAQ.com. Use either uncompressed or the HuffYUV codec (download info on the guide, it's free) and then PCM (WAV) audio. The MPEG format was never intended for editing, as it is a final-output format. The AVI format is a workspace format, meant for editing.


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  #7  
07-14-2004, 01:06 AM
jla314 jla314 is offline
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Good Morning,

I uninstalled and reinstalled Premiere. 'Natch with virus protection--off.

I was able to create an AVI preset identical in every way to the one on your site "Capture Guides...etc." The only item I could not find was the "encode interlaced" feature on page 6 to which you refer.

I recorded a 2 minute clip using this preset (LS AVI Capture). Opened Premiere; imported the avi file; the problem still exists. Video track OK; Audio comes in blank.

Judy
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  #8  
07-14-2004, 01:13 AM
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Whoops... forgot to mention in previous post,

I used the HuffYUV codec. Where do I find the uncompressed?

I muted my audio controls per your the tutorial on your site. Where do I find info about PCM(Wav) audio? I don't believe it was part of the AVI Capture tutorial.

I have a suggestion. Do you have any small AVI and MPEG2 files that were recorded on ATI hardware/software ...that import OK into Premiere? If I could download them...and they don't work on my computer--I think the problem lies in my copy of Premiere.

Judy

- jla314
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  #9  
07-14-2004, 04:03 AM
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I'll upload some AVI for you tonight. It's going to be big though, like 50MB big. That's a few seconds worth of video. Have you a fast connection?

On the homepage of digitalFAQ.com is a small 4MB clip from a cartoon, using MPEG-2 with MP2 audio.

The other questions I'll answer with some images. Again, later tonight, possibly early tomorrow morning. My main video PC is busy for several more hours.

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  #10  
07-14-2004, 04:06 AM
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You may also be interested in this:
http://www.mainconcept.com/mpeg_pro.shtml

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  #11  
07-14-2004, 06:20 AM
jla314 jla314 is offline
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I have dsl. Should be OK. Only found a 4Mb X-men clip on home page. It only contains video so I searched the net for other clips.

I downloaded some free AVI clips from www.pcworld.com/downloads. The "3D animated jets" and "Pull yourself together." I downloaded an MPEG2 (mpeg) file from www.ptvupgrade.com/support/DVRchive/. When imported into Premiere--these files are OK. I can see the video & audio tracks and can edit the audio. Premiere appears to be working just fine.

Does this mean that there something wrong with the ATI card and/or software? Could there be a problem with the Sound Blaster card?

- jla314
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  #12  
07-15-2004, 12:55 AM
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Dear Lord Smurf,

I found the solution this morning. Audio capture was set for 48.000 KHz, 16 bit stereo. Apparently, my card does not support it. If I use 8 bit stereo or mono...the AVI files are OK in Premiere. So, this morning--I'm a very happy camper!

What is the advantage of having 16 bit sound? I may buy another sound card.

Also, a very hearty thank you for your help. Without your site and your input...I would not have solved the problem.

Now that I am beginning to get a handle on this medium...I intend studying the rest of your tutorials and the posts on your forum.

I also plan to send an email to ATI customer service. One of their techies directed me here. I will suggest that they post your site on their technical support site.

Judy

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  #13  
07-15-2004, 05:07 AM
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True audio is 16-bit.

It probably would have been another few rounds before I'd have suspected the audio card. I came here about to post the links for the files I uploaded overnight. It's good you caught this, skipped a few steps!

You may want to invest in a decent soundcard. The Creative SoundBlaster Live cards are about $30, and then the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz cards are about $50. I have them both, and they work great. Cheap sound cards are definitely a problem, though usually from sync errors, not really from recording error like this (though known to happen, they are actually quite uncommon these days).


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  #14  
07-16-2004, 01:58 AM
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THIS IS TRULY A MYSTERY!!!

I purchased a SoundBlaster Live card (via the Net for $30+ not including shipping)to be installed in this computer. I believe that it even was supposed to have 5.1 dolby "whatever." I don't have the original box any longer, so I'm going on memory alone about the dolby. The CD installation disk--says that it is a SB Live card.

When I run DXDIAG...the Sound tab says that I have a SB Live card and when I run the tests there...XP tells me its OK. The ATI test indicates that maximum acceleration is unstable for this card. I had to set the card to "standard" in order to do captures.

This is what I read on DXDIAG:

Name: SBLive! Audio (D000)
Product ID: 100
Type: WDM
Default Device: YES

I need your input with this matter. I don't want to haul my computer down to my PC techies again to find out the model number, etc.

Is there some area on XP software (like the device manager) where SoundBlaster features can be turned off? ATI technical had me "fooling" with my system/device manager before I contacted Digital FAQS. Usually, I record any changes I make so that I can undo them--but, this is a hard thing to do when you are on the phone.

Judy



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07-16-2004, 04:27 AM
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The ATI diag tells me my card fails too. 100% of the time, always has. The ATI diag tool is pretty much useless. Is it telling you that you have more than 0.02% difference in timing, and then giving that big nasty red "X" for failed?

Don't worry about it unless the audio will not capture or the audio is not in sync with the video.

If you really want to default the system, keep your CD with SB stuff handy. Right click on MY COMPUTER and go to PROPERTIES. Click the HARDWARE TAB. Then go to DEVICE MANAGER. Under the SOUND, VIDEO, GAME branch, (use + to expand) right click on any Creative/Soundblaster item in the list and right click UNINSTALL them all. This will remove all SB stuff from your PC. Go to Start-> control panels, Classic view, and then add-remove programs. Uninstall any CREATIVE or SOUNDBLASTER software. After uninstalling all this, reboot. Start->Shutdown->RESTART. When Windows starts up again, it will re-install the card. It may or may not ask for your CD. You may want to also go to creative.com and download the latest Windows XP SoundBlaster drivers and software.

(If the SB card does not want to come back, or still does not work right, I take no responsibility for this. This is unlikely, but I think it needs to be said. I've done it many times myself, never a problem. When hardware acts bad, I uninstall the software and drivers for it, what is what I just directed you to do. I then reinstall it all, and it's fine again.)


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  #16  
07-17-2004, 02:34 AM
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Followed your instructions--THE PLOT THICKENS!

No problem uninstalling & re-booting. However, XP couldn't find a driver for the sound card. I put in my SB installation disk. It loaded "Creative EMU1OK1 Audio Processor (WDM)." When I ran DXDIAG and did the sound test...XP only tested to a maximum of 16-bit, 22Khz. Does this mean that the card only goes to 22Khz? Or did the disk load a generic driver?

If so, I'll be off to CDW this week to pick up a different card. I may be a newbie...but I know that I would not have purchased such a limited sound card when I was spending $$ for ATI's 9800 Pro. If the card isn't worth $30+...then I'm a victim of bait & switch. Next time I buy computer equipment, must check out the model number!!!

Judy

P.S.--if this sound card is a dud...I understand why it took so long to solve my problem. Nobody would suspect that a "poor" sound card was installed on my system with all the higher-end type equipment/software.
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  #17  
07-17-2004, 06:29 AM
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The driver CreativeEMU likely means CREATIVE EMULATION, meaning it is not really seeing your hardware. It sees something made by CREATIVE, so it's giving a generic driver.

You may have to go online and download the newest drivers for your exact card off www.creative.com What is the EXACT model of the card? It should be printed on the card itself. I have my SB Live 5.1 card here still, no other computer to put it in, has the card name written on the green board in fancy gold printing.

Was this a boxed soundcard? This is not likely, but it could even be a fake SB card, especially knowing the trash often sold on eBay. I've never seen CREATIVEEMU drivers in use. Either that, or it's a really old card, and not the newest LIVE series from 2001 or later.

If you do intend to buy a new card, let's go ahead and assume your computer is like mine that was stubborn. One of mine refused to use an SB card. It was fine in Windows ME, but when I upgraded to Windows XP Pro, it refused to cooperate with my motherboard. So I got a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz for about $50. This is a very nice card.



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  #18  
07-19-2004, 01:16 AM
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Morning,

This was a boxed card. I bought it via the net(from a company--not ebay). Golly, don't have the box any longer. So, no idea which card I bought now without opening my computer.

I may just buy another sound card since this is causing me grief. Thank you for the recommendation. What do you think about SB Audigy? It was recommended in the SAMS Teach Yourself Premiere Pro (page 74).

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07-19-2004, 09:05 AM
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Th Audigy card is not very good for editing with. It has a huge lists of conflicts with video cards.

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  #20  
07-19-2004, 10:58 AM
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Lord Smurf,

I think I'll buy the card you recommended. Since I have to go shopping...could you recommend a microphone for doing voiceovers? Something not too expensive; but, one that gets the job done.

ALSO, one that would not conflict with the TB Santa Cruz card?

--Judy
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