Huffyuv vs. Uncompressed? Need VirtualDub capturing help!

[VideoTechMan]

Have a quick question. Its been a long while since doing any video capture and now that I have more and better gear to work with, I need a little help in figuring the issue with a video I captured with VirtualDub.

My system is using an AMD dual-core CPU with 2GB RAM running XP, and the card is the AIW 8500DV with the purple breakout box.

I did two quick captures to see how everything will work out. I ran the tape (SP recorded, non-commercial) in the AG-5710 to the breakout box via S-Video and audio cables going to the breakout box as well passing through to the built in audio card (may put the EM-U 1616m back in service, testing it for vinyl recording on audio machine right now).

First tested using the uncompressed RGB mode, two minutes added up to over 1.6GB! Not a big deal with large hard drives today but not sure whether to capture that way for a lot of video. Huffyuv may be best.

I try to play the video back in WMP and VLC, but after the first few frames play the video constantly repeats itself at the first frame, similar in how a CD skips. The audio plays fine and I notice at the very top of my monitor that the video is moving along fine. May be a bit hard to explain without some video, but that's what its currently doing. There were no dropped frames at all during the test capture.

Would anyone have an idea what may be going on? Unfortunately I ran out of time tonight to work on it since I have to work in the morning. I'll try to work with again after work tomorrow afternoon.

[Goldwingfahrer]

Hello
I can not help, I have no AMD nor WMP or VLC [origial from France] you

I work with MPC-HC + smplayer + PotPlayer.

Directly in RGB [24 or 32] I capture very rare, here I capture in YUY2 or UYVY both in 4: 2: 2

What with ATI also not available here.

You can see a detail of your recorded movie, perhaps I can play it without problems.

[sanlyn]

Don't capture VHS as RGB or uncompressed. Use YUY2 with huffyuv or Lagarith lossless compression. Many media players choke on uncompressed RGB anyway. Besides, you'll likely get crushed darks and clipped brights with RGB capture.

[msgohan]

Never capture analog in RGB. Use YUY2 or another 4:2:2 pixel format and compress with Huffyuv or other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VideoTechMan

I try to play the video back in WMP and VLC, but after the first few frames play the video constantly repeats itself at the first frame, similar in how a CD skips. The audio plays fine and I notice at the very top of my monitor that the video is moving along fine.

I know the effect you're referring to. AIWs do that when they decide a video contains Macrovision. So you've got the old false-detection problem.

One of the hacked drivers should disable this deliberate "feature", but there can still be bad AGC effects caused by the way the hardware itself interprets the video signal.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=35832

[VideoTechMan]

Thanks for the tips! Yeah I know RGB is more for a component based signal such as BetacamSP, not for VHS, just playing around with that one.

I think what may be best is to run the tape through the full-frame TBC to eliminate whatever rogue signal the AIW thinks is a MV signal. It took me a long while to get the gear I need to do this job right so now its time to get things started.

I'll do some more test captures this evening and post back. Thanks again!

[Goldwingfahrer]

Quote:

Yeah I know RGB is more for a component based signal such as BetacamSP,

No
Betacam SP outputs the signal in composite [CVBS] + S-Video [Y / C] + Components from Y_Pb_Pr
In and out.
Nothing of RGB [color space]

[msgohan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VideoTechMan

I know RGB is more for a component based signal such as BetacamSP

It isn't, in fact. Analog component video is a B&W image combined with two color difference signals: YPbPr. The digital version of component video is YCbCr, with the subsampled 4:2:2 still exceeding Betacam SP's resolution. RGB is a conversion that loses information.

[VideoTechMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer

No
Betacam SP outputs the signal in composite [CVBS] + S-Video [Y / C] + Components from Y_Pb_Pr
In and out.
Nothing of RGB [color space]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

It isn't, in fact. Analog component video is a B&W image combined with two color difference signals: YPbPr. The digital version of component video is YCbCr, with the subsampled 4:2:2 still exceeding Betacam SP's resolution. RGB is a conversion that loses information.

Yeah, you're both right. I forgot that component like BetacamSP uses a different color space. RGB is more of a computer based IIRC. The different color signals can be confusing, but I am going to take notes on that and that way can have a more solid understanding on the different color spaces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

Never capture analog in RGB. Use YUY2 or another 4:2:2 pixel format and compress with Huffyuv or other.


I know the effect you're referring to. AIWs do that when they decide a video contains Macrovision. So you've got the old false-detection problem.

One of the hacked drivers should disable this deliberate "feature", but there can still be bad AGC effects caused by the way the hardware itself interprets the video signal.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=35832

I put the SP tape in question in one of my broadcast VCR's that has the full-frame TBC built in, captured about a minute of video and sure enough, it played back with no problems. MV is such a nasty signal indeed.

[msgohan]

Out of curiosity, which model? I thought only the W-VHS decks had full-frame TBCs that cleared MV.

[VideoTechMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

Out of curiosity, which model? I thought only the W-VHS decks had full-frame TBCs that cleared MV.

I used the Panasonic AG-DS840 which has the TBC built in, full frame.

[Goldwingfahrer]

Can this little brother of AG7750
really clean remove the horizontal jitter?
The AG-DS840 and even the 855 is not offered here in Europe.

[VideoTechMan]

If you're referring to the AG-7750, i'm pretty sure it can stabilize the signal and remove the MV, provided that the deck has the TBC board installed. Some of the 7000 series VTR's didn't have the TBC board, and those are hard to find separately. Also keep in mind the pro decks play SP tapes only, EP/LP tapes won't work.

The DS840/850 has the TBC boards installed.

[Goldwingfahrer]

Quote:

Some of the 7000 series VTR's didn't have the TBC board,

Yes I know

This is known to me, I have of the AG 7330 + 7350 + 7660 + 7750 + 8600.
and still about 4 AG-MD models.
Drum und Caps H cirka 00200 bis 00760
The models 7600 + 7700 + 3 pcs. 8700 are in the cemetery.

My two 7750 have a quieter fan and additionally the F-timecode board installed.
At the AG-8600 We have replaced more than 100 capacitors here,
at a AG7700 there are exactly 113 capacitors.see screen.

Screen 2 = Shortly before the trip to the cemetery

[msgohan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VideoTechMan

I used the Panasonic AG-DS840 which has the TBC built in, full frame.

Oh yeah, do you have time now to post that sample I requested some time back, pretty please? With the switching noise masking turned on?

I bought one but it arrived damaged so I still dunno whether one would perform as I desire.

[lordsmurf]

Huffyuv lossless AVI is 35-40gb/hour. So about 1gb+ per two minutes.

Uncompressed YUY2 AVI is 75gb/hour. So 1gb+ per minute. If your 2-minute capture was 1.6gb, then it was indeed an uncompressed AVI.

VLC has been doing some ugly things lately. I no longer trust it. To see if the video is fine, open it in VirtualDub, and view the first few frames that way.

You need a TBC between the VCR and capture card. (I have a few for sale.) What you may be seeing with "top of video only" (mostly frozen frame?) is false anti-copy detection from the card.