VHS capturing: what do I need to own and know?

[sanlyn]

Well, you got farther along the first time than most people do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

Function FixChromaBleeding (clip input) {
  ......
  ......
  ......

  # expand to cover beyond the bleeding areas and shift to compensate the resizing
  mask = mask.ConvertToRGB32().GeneralConvolution(0,"0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0").ConvertToYV12()
  ......

}

First, if the the line of code shown above is split into multiple lines by Notepad's "Wrap Text" when FixChromaBleeding was pasted into your script, that's an error for certain. Code lines can't be split that way. In Notepad, disable "Word Wrap" when working with scripts. There's a valid way to split lines in Avisynth. On top of that, the part of the line that was split contains a character string in quotes. To keep it simple, just don't use Word Wrap.

You shouldn't have to copy and paste avs files into your script anyway, unless you just want it that way. See "Import" in the script below.

FixChromaBleeding and SmoothUV work in YV12 and non-interlaced video. To use most chroma fixers you must first deinterlace or use SeparateFields(). Deinterlacing is more effective.

I don't think I used FixChromaBleeding on any of the samples, perhaps only one if I did. For one thing, in this case it desaturates everything, not just one color, and you can't control the strength of desaturation.

I used a couple of other plugins for the mp4's. I'm getting them together with an updated version of the other plugins and will post later today.

Stacking before and after is one way of comparing results, but I'd find it very difficult to work with both frames in Virtualdub and slows processing. In any case, I believe the overuse of "B=" is likely confusing some of the operation.
There's more than one way to do it. Try it this way:

### ---- In the Import line, change the path to match your system ----
Import("Drive:\path to\Avisynth\plugins\FixChromaBleeding.avs")

A = AVISource("Capture.avi").ConverttoRGB32(matrix="rec601",interlaced=true)
B = AVISource("capture.avi")

# ---- Here, move the focus of the script onto version "B" ----

B
AssumeTFF()
ConverttoYV12(interlaced=true)
QTGMC(preset="medium")
FixChromaBleeding()
SmoothUV()
SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4,0,3).Weave()
ConverttoRGB32(matrix="rec601",interlaced=true)
C=last

Return(StackVertical(A,C))

If you still get the CACHE_GETCHILD_CACHE_MODE error, you can sometimes ignore it but it's not safe. Make sure you copied the FFTW3 system files in the right place, and check that you have MSVC runtime 2010, 2012, and 2013 in your system if you haven't done so-- the support plugins require them. I assume you're using Avisynth 2.6, not the "MT" versions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

But if I keept screwing with the colors, it gets worse/comes back. So how do I tweak the colors the way I want without introducing the posterizing effect?

Multiple copies of the HSI filter and too much desaturation cause problems with that filter. I used only one HSI filter to lower saturation on two colors at the same time, then fixed the rest with COlorMill and gradation curves. You might be trying to get too much out of that paricular video. I'll have to show you what I did (which, in the end, still wasn't quite right for that logo).

[EDIT] Correcting myself here. I used FixChromaBleeding on Original3.avi.

[koberulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

You shouldn't have to copy and paste avs files into your script anyway, unless you just want it that way. See "Import" in the script below.

I don't have an AVS for FCB, I just found the code on the AviSynth wiki and copied it across. There was no download anywhere that I could see.

Quote:

I don't think I used FixChromaBleeding on any of the samples, perhaps only one if I did. For one thing, in this case it desaturates everything, not just one color, and you can't control the strength of desaturation.

Quote:

For color bleed and chroma shift I used Avisynth's FixChromaBleeding and ChromaShift filters, then added awarpsharp2 on Chroma only

I actually don't mind the desaturation too much, TBH. I was desaturating everything, then desaturating red, yellow, cyan, and blue even more. So pumping a bit of the saturation up instead of down gets to a pretty similar spot.

Quote:

Stacking before and after is one way of comparing results, but I'd find it very difficult to work with both frames in Virtualdub and slows processing.

If I drop zoom to 75% I can see all of all four things. I've never used any of these filters or anything before, so a before-and-after is helpful.

Quote:

If you still get the CACHE_GETCHILD_CACHE_MODE error, you can sometimes ignore it but it's not safe.

I can't ignore it, because it refuses to open the AVS file.

Quote:

I assume you're using Avisynth 2.6, not the "MT" versions.

Actually, I think moving to an MT version might have been what broke it. It was definitely working at some point, but I upgraded from 2.5.8 MT to 2.6, then 2.6 to 2.6 MT, and made some changes to the script and at some point in there it all died.

Quote:

Multiple copies of the HSI filter and too much desaturation cause problems with that filter. I used only one HSI filter to lower saturation on two colors at the same time, then fixed the rest with COlorMill and gradation curves. You might be trying to get too much out of that paricular video. I'll have to show you what I did (which, in the end, still wasn't quite right for that logo).

ColorMill and Curves affect everything, though, so it's touchier. Whereas with HSI I can do basically anything with any color.

After running FCB, I've got everything saturated up to 1.05, then red and yellow saturated down to 0.94. They're in separate filters, though, because I've got the red hue at +5 and the yellow hue at -7. And I've kept the cyan+green hue at +14. Not sure if that's causing posterizing problems or not though.

The other issue I'm having is cropping. I dropped that into the AviSynth script as well: Crop(6,12,-28,-12) and then AddBorders(16,12,18,12). But I seem to be getting more of that fuzzy right edge than I did when I did the crop-and-borders in VDub. Am I wrong in thinking that AviSynth code is the same as cropping 6 and 28X and 12 and 12Y in VDub, then using resize to letterbox/crop to 720x576 with 'multiples of 2' selected?

EDIT: And now I've got the left-hand keyway almost perfect (or as close as I think I can get, at least), but the right-hand keyway looks awful. If I ever find the people who put this broadcast together back in '95...

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

I don't have an AVS for FCB, I just found the code on the AviSynth wiki and copied it across. There was no download anywhere that I could see.

Yes, it's posted as the text of the plugin, like many others. Another is GradFun2DBmod, if you care to paste 428 lines of text into your scripts, and it's used very often. I used it with Original3.avi and will post it later.

You can paste the FixChromaBleeding text into a file in Notepad (don't use Word Wrap!!!), save it as an .avs file, and copy it to your plugins. Or with this little critter, you can save it as .avsi and it will load automatically. I've done that with several such posted plugins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

Actually, I think moving to an MT version might have been what broke it. It was definitely working at some point, but I upgraded from 2.5.8 MT to 2.6, then 2.6 to 2.6 MT, and made some changes to the script and at some point in there it all died.

Yes, MT would do it. I confess that I gave up on MT, no patience to hassle with it and hunt down user settings in posts all over the world. QTGMC has a modified MT download but only works with one MT version, and you can browse dozens of forum pages trying to figure it out. So if it takes 45 minutes to inverse telecine a 90-minute movie, so be it. Anyway, some filters don't give a speed increase no matter what you do. A great many "ancient" pre-MT plugins are still very widely used that either ignore MT or just crash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

ColorMill and Curves affect everything, though, so it's touchier. Whereas with HSI I can do basically anything with any color.

ColorMill works with individual colors and brightness ranges, while curves can be more specific. With HSI, if you lower saturation/intensity with any color, it affects the entire range. But I did use it sparingly on the samples. I'll be posting samples of what I used -- even if they're not be exactly what you want they'll give you some ideas.

The other issue I'm having is cropping. I dropped that into the AviSynth script as well: Crop(6,12,-28,-12) and then AddBorders(16,12,18,12). But I seem to be getting more of that fuzzy right edge than I did when I did the crop-and-borders in VDub. Am I wrong in thinking that AviSynth code is the same as cropping 6 and 28X and 12 and 12Y in VDub, then using resize to letterbox/crop to 720x576 with 'multiples of 2' selected?[/quote]However you do it, take care with the rules for different colorspaces and frame structure.

Back again a little later.

[koberulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

Yes, MT would do it.

Yep, reinstalling AviSynth fixed the problem.

Quote:

ColorMill works with individual colors and brightness ranges, while curves can be more specific. With HSI, if you lower saturation/intensity with any color, it affects the entire range. But I did use it sparingly on the samples. I'll be posting samples of what I used -- even if they're not be exactly what you want they'll give you some ideas.

But with HSI, I can use the blues and Cyans to make the two-point area really blue, without damaging any other colors:
BlueHSI.png

Whereas with ColorMill, it completely breaks everything and it's still greener than the HSI example:

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(Color correction intentionally extreme for the sake of example)

I changed it up so I've got the yellow and red desaturation in one filter, then handled the hue in each separately. Which is more total filters, but fewer filters concerned with saturation. It did seem to make Crawford's arm look smoother, but the FIBA logo behind him is still posterizing horribly. Although it does also seem to be present in the original, so fiddling with HSI may do nothing.

[sanlyn]

Indeed, with this recording you have some work cut out for you. I've been there -- in fact I'm still there this month with 72 straight hours of botched-up tapes I recorded on 911 in New York on two cheap (really cheap!) VCRs, first with a bad antenna starting 8:48 A.M. that disappeared when one tower fell and then with a bad cable quickie connect that would only get a dim Channel 2 for the first 48 hours.

Here is the script I used for my work on Original3.avi.
I've commented-out the cropping, so the script will output uncropped.
I used Import() for FixChromaBleeding, but you can paste the script into at the bottom below the "return last" line if you like.
There are also three mainstay Avisynth plugins in the script. I'm attaching them as well, with notes below.
NOTE: You must modify the path statements to match locations in your system.

Import("D:\Avisynth 2.6\plugins\FixChromaBleeding.avs")
Import("D:\Avisynth 2.6\plugins\LimitedSharpenFaster.avs")

AviSource("E:\forum\faq\koberulz\B\Original3.avi")
 # Crop(8,12,-34,-10).AddBorders(12,12,14,10)
ColorYUV(Off_y=-10)
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
SmoothLevels(16, 1.0,255,16,255,protect=4)
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC(preset="medium")
FixChromaBleeding()
ChromaShift(C=2)
SmoothUV()
MergeChroma(awarpsharp2(depth=30))
LimitedSharpenFaster()
GradFun2DBmod(thr=1.5)
AddGrainC(1.0,1.0)

SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4,0,3).Weave()
ConvertToRGB32(matrix="Rec601",interlaced=false)
return last

I'm also attaching the results of this script as the lossless YV12 Lagarith avi from VirtualDub.

The script was run with VirtualDub filters loaded. I'm attaching the VirtualDub .vcf file with the filters and settings exactly as they were used. I don't know if you're using .vcf files (you said you were using VirtualDub "scripts", which I don't use). A good place to keep .vcf files is to copy them to the folder that contains your project. Don't keep them in your VirtualDub plugins. A .vcf file saves processing/filter settings. When you load the Avisynth script, go to "File..." -> "Load processing settings", find the .vcf file, and click Open, or OK, or whatever. The filters will load and the results will display in the output pane. Note that loading a .vcf overwrites any VDub filters you might already have loaded.

The Vdub filters used were:
- 2D Cleaner Optimized (Jim Casaburi add-in vdf)
- Temporal smoother (builtin)
- Hue/saturation/Intensity
- Gradation curves
- ColorMill
- ColorTools (loaded but disabled)

If you don't have casuburi's VirtualDub 2Dcleaner.vdf, it's attached.

The four Avisynth filters you likely don't have:

1. SmoothAdjust v2.80 (for Avisynth 2.5 and 2.6).

2. aWarpSharp2 2015 (required by several other plugins)

3. LimitedSharpenFaster.avs. NOTE: this is kept as an .avs and loaded manually with Import(). Reason: the later version LSFMOD.avsi is similar and required by other big plugins.

[EDIT] and 4. GradFun2DBmod.avsi + GradFun2db.dll

Any additional support plugins required by these filters are either included in the .zips or already supplied with the QTGMC package.

[koberulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

SmoothLevels(16, 1.0,255,16,255,protect=4)
MergeChroma(awarpsharp2(depth=30))
LimitedSharpenFaster()
GradFun2DBmod(thr=1.5)
AddGrainC(1.0,1.0)

Could you explain these a bit?

Quote:

I don't know if you're using .vcf files (you said you were using VirtualDub "scripts", which I don't use).

VDub replaced .vcf in 1.10 with .vdscript. They're the same thing as far as I can tell, just different extensions (and something internal, as changing the extension doesn't make them cross-compatible). I've dropped back down to 1.9, because 1.10 has all sorts of issues opening .avs files, so .vcf is what I need.

EDIT: I think you included the wrong 2d cleaner. I've got a '2d cleaner' from Jim Casaburi listed, but I get an error about '2d cleaner optimised' not being loaded.

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

I've dropped back down to 1.9, because 1.10 has all sorts of issues opening .avs files, so .vcf is what I need. Yes, lordsmurf discounted v.1.10 long ago.

SmoothLevels is a function in the SmoothAdjust plugin. The function "smooths" by using ordered dithering (deriving luma and color values from "gaps" in the perceived response curve, such as rough edges in large areas of color that should be smooth gradations). Also used to help reduce crushed darks and bright clipping by gradually pulling in super blacks and super brights to the y=16-235 range (or, as you can see from the first few numbers, you can modify the working range) without strong clamping of values at the extremes. It's one of several filters that can help prevent banding or help smooth the edges of hard hot spots, etc. "Protect=4" tells SmoothAdjust to ignore y=4 or darker, which includes black borders. To see other parameters, functions, and what the numbers mean, see the SmoothAdjust .txt doc in the .zip download.

MergeChroma(awarpsharp2(depth=30)) uses aWarpSharp2 to sharpen and tighten up fuzzy edges, such as where color bleeds over an object's borders. aWarpSharp2 sharpens both luma and chroma, but we only want to to sharpen chroma edges. So MergeChroma takes the luma values from the previous step and merges the chroma into the image from aWarpSharp's results. You could also use MergeLuma to take luminance from one step or another clip and merge it with the chroma from another source. http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Merge#MergeChroma, and in Avisynth's installed online help.

LimitedSharpenFaster is a sharpener (of course). It's designed to avoid artifacts. It used to be called LimitedSharpen. Its parameters let you adjust strength, areas you don't want sharpened (such as edges that too easily develop sharpening halos), and so forth. http://avisynth.nl/index.php/LimitedSharpen, a copy of which came with the .zip file.

GradFun2DBmod(thr=1.5) is an anti-banding filter. It can prevent banding and posterizing effects in hard edges and, if you're not afraid to soften the video too much, can help smooth bad banding effects that already exist. A more powerful version is GradFun3 in the Dither() plugin package that works with 16-bit dithering. For a demo of smoothing banding effects in a large background wall area: https://www.animemusicvideos.org/gui...l.html#banding

AddGrainC adds very fine barely imperceptible film-like grain to mask hard edges and other imperfections. If you want you can add enough grain to make it look like multicolored rough sand, or create a rainstorm. It's used by GradFun2DBmod and QTGMC, among others such as MCTemporalDenoise.

These filters are useful with denoisers, which remove grain. Remove the grain that defines fine, soft edges and gradients, and you'll get harder edges and contours that should be restored to a more natural state.

[koberulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

The function "smooths" by using ordered dithering (deriving luma and color values from "gaps" in the perceived response curve, such as rough edges in large areas of color that should be smooth gradations).

You've lost me.

The biggest problem I have with AviSynth is I can't drag sliders up and down to see what happens. I've tried commenting out the SmoothLevels line, and reloading the video in VDub, and going back and forth like that and I can't see a difference.

Quote:

MergeChroma(awarpsharp2(depth=30)) uses aWarpSharp2 to sharpen and tighten up fuzzy edges, such as where color bleeds over an object's borders. aWarpSharp2 sharpens both luma and chroma, but we only want to to sharpen chroma edges. So MergeChroma takes the luma values from the previous step and merges the chroma into the image from aWarpSharp's results. You could also use MergeLuma to take luminance from one step or another clip and merge it with the chroma from another source. http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Merge#MergeChroma, and in Avisynth's installed online help.

I've read the wiki page, but it was talking about using two video files and in this case there's only the one, and there was the awarpsharp thing in there, so the wiki wasn't really much help with understanding it.

Did you miss the edit in my earlier post about the 2D cleaner?

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

The biggest problem I have with AviSynth is I can't drag sliders up and down to see what happens. I've tried commenting out the SmoothLevels line, and reloading the video in VDub, and going back and forth like that and I can't see a difference.

I usually reload by changing the script and clicking F2 or "reopen video file", which reopens the current frame.

You can use sliders and whatnot in AvsPmod but it's a headache to set up and use, and you have to use VDub filters and preview separately. IMO it's one of those conveniences that can be very inconvenient. Or you can spend the next week setting up all your filters and Avisynth functions in AvsPmod, some of which will be recognized and run properly, some of which won't. AvsPmod users can advise here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

I've read the wiki page, but it was talking about using two video files and in this case there's only the one, and there was the awarpsharp thing in there, so the wiki wasn't really much help with understanding it.

"Two videos", or the result from the previous processing step and the result of the current processing step, would be the same thing. The previous processing step would be the line that precedes the MergeChroma line. The full syntax of MergeChroma would be, in English, "MergeChronma(take luma from the last step, take chroma from the current step). Video #1 comes from the last step, video #2 comes from the current step. The line could be written:
MergeChroima(last,(aWarpSharp2(depth=30))
and would mean the same thing.

You could also use this very complicated method:
source=last
b=source.aWarpSharp2(depth=30)
MergeChroma(source, b)

"source" and "b" in the above routine are effectively 2 different video placeholders in memory.

dithering (used by lots of filters, including QTGMC): Google immediately displays this quick definition of graphics dithering, which is used in your Windows desktop and on the web all the time:

Quote:

Dithering is used in computer graphics to create the illusion of "color depth" in images with a limited color palette - a technique also known as color quantization. In a dithered image, colors that are not available in the palette are approximated by a diffusion of colored pixels from within the available palette.

For more detail, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither. For an extreme example, scroll down to here in the same article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither#Examples.

You can comment-out SmoothAdjust, but to me color looks a cleaner and more even in some areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

Did you miss the edit in my earlier post about the 2D cleaner?

Looks as if I did, darn it. Wouldn't you know, there were 4 versions of 2DCleaner. I have them in 4 subfolders. Each original .zip has the same name, 2Dcleaner.zip. I found the correct version and renamed its .zip file, attached. Actually you can keep either of the 2D's if you want, the different versions have different .vdf names.

[koberulz]

Is there anything that can be done about how sharply the color inside the three-point line drops off? At the top of the arc and behind the NBA logo, there's a really sharp change of colour that looks absolutely awful.

[sanlyn]

That's chroma ghosting. You can try a different VCR, or take the rough path try to clean hat sort of thing with AfterEffects tracking or masking, but you're down to frame by frame work. You have a video hat can't take much filtering/sharpening on an automatic basis. Maybe another reader who's handy with masking work can come up with something, but with poor quality video there's an early point of diminishing returns. And I'd say some of that is a reflection from the floor and you can see remnants of the three "M"s in the ad on the side wall.

[koberulz]

Actually, looking at that frame from both VCRs...other than the horrible noise over the top of it, the older, more basic Panasonic VCR actually looks better. It's sharper, the colors are more accurate, and there's even more of the picture visible at the top.
OldVCR.png

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-- merged --

So I started looking for new VCRs, when I remembered this comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Even the fixed clips have a chroma blooming problem. It's not the TBC, and my money is on the VCR.

I didn't use the AVT the first time I tried capturing from the Panasonic, just for the sake of speed. Figured it was worth a shot, so I shifted the entire process across into the other room, and here we go:
NewVCR.png

So, direct split-screen comparison:

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That looks to me like it is the TBC.

-- merged --

Okay, here we go:
The Philips, with AVT (left) vs without AVT (right):
WithAVT.png

The Panasonic, without AVT (left) vs with AVT (right):

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Captures through the AVT from the Philips (left) and the Panasonic (right):
AVTCompare.png

Captures straight from the VCRs, without the AVT, from the Panasonic (left) and the Philips (right):

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I've also attached full-screen versions of each.

[sanlyn]

Many performance factors shown here have been experienced by others, so don't feel alone. Readers are familiar with the way some tbc models pump upper midrange and brights -- behavior often fixed with the AVT's proc amp. Other external tbc's have their own effects, such as image softening.

The cheap Panasonic you mention has a sharper image at first glance, but mostly artificial oversharpening with bright edge halos, along with pumped up contrast and clipped brights, tracking error noise, line sync errors, and obvious dot crawl. The Philips, which is I think a rebranded JVC with line tbc and dnr, avoids some of those errors but blurs detail and smears chroma (both VCRs smear chroma, but in different ways with different colors). If you had to make a choice the Philips would be an easier cleanup job. The cheap Panasonic is useless without tracking repair and a pass-thru line tbc. Average budget Panasonics made after 1996 pump contrast and oversharpen. But with or without the tbc, the Philips has oversaturated red with this tape. In the Panasonic reds look purplish. Because of the way the AVt responds to this tape and the players, it can look worse.

With bad, damaged, or really noisy tape a high-end Panasonic (not a cheapie) would usually give cleaner images. But the results would still be imperfect and require post processing. Many users have the same opinion. They also know that different VCR-TBC combinations behave differently, and different VCRs will track certain tapes better or worse than other players (which is why many users have more than one VCR). Others have devised various workarounds for some tbc problems, such as turning off the tbc in a player or using a non-tbc player and/or turning off dnr, then removing the external tbc, and using a recommended DVD player pass-thru device with different tbc characteristics -- a solution that has its own faults but can sometimes give more workable results even if they're a headache to clean.

Some tapes are so awful to begin with, a good capture service using pro (and very expensive) shop gear is needed to get a better lossless capture. I've gone through that myself at digitalfaq, even if I do have equipment that gives decent performance otherwise.

As lordsmurf said elsewhere, analog video is visual chaos. There are so many ugly captures in these forums it's a wonder how other readers were able to process for better results. There are also cases where the source was simply dreadful, period, so that very little could be done.

My experience with external tbc's:

My first was a DataVideo TBC-1000 in 2004. It worked well for a few weeks. But soon it would shut down mid-capture. I finally found a fix by turning it off for an hour, but this took too long. If it shut down I'd place it in the refrigerator for 15 minutes. Being impatient with this and not willing to hassle with returns/repairs, etc., I ditched it. Anyway, I thought it softened too much. I tried another TBC-1000 years later, but it still looked too soft IMO.

Later in 2004 I bought the AVT-8710. It has worked with clean output, very slight raised gamma, no pumping except with some flavors of Macrovision, where highlights were visibly over-bright and fixed with its proc amp. But that in itself is often a Macrovision side effect. Over the years it was dropped on the floor a few of times (!) after I accidentally yanked a connecting wire. Thus, it will occasionally display pink video or visible dot crawl and herringbone when turned on. Solution: unplug it, reverse the power adapter plugs in the A.C. socket, then back on. Voila! This happens every few months or so although for a couple of years it never occurred. I tried a newer AVT several years later but it had bad posterizing with all tapes. So I returned it to B&H Photo and I'm sticking with my original. I've captured over 300 tapes with it, including a long sample from a poor retail tape film transfer capped with the AVT, posted a few days ago. When I don't use the AVT I use a Panasonic ES10 or ES15 as a tbc pass-thru device. But those don't defeat Macrovision.

Everyone has these hassles with analog tape and capture hardware. We all keep plugging away and learning.

[koberulz]

Okay, I've picked up a Panasonic NV-HS1000 from eBay. It mentions in the buying guide that those are 'full-field', which I initially confused with 'full-frame' and thought I might then need an ES10 as a line TBC if I were going to go that way. But there was a really cheap ES10 available (who said Brexit was all bad?), so I ended up jumping on it anyway. Might come in handy.

I also found a TBC-1000 while I was trawling eBay, so I picked that up as well.

Now the waiting game begins anew, but in the meantime: what is the difference between the JVC and Panasonic TBCs?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

Okay, I've picked up a Panasonic NV-HS1000 from eBay. It mentions in the buying guide that those are 'full-field', which I initially confused with 'full-frame' and thought I might then need an ES10 as a line TBC if I were going to go that way. But there was a really cheap ES10 available (who said Brexit was all bad?), so I ended up jumping on it anyway. Might come in handy.
I also found a TBC-1000 while I was trawling eBay, so I picked that up as well.
Now the waiting game begins anew, but in the meantime: what is the difference between the JVC and Panasonic TBCs?

To answer you quickly...

line TBC
< field TBC (multi-line)
< frame TBC (multi field/line)

In terms of the full-field vs line TBC in the S-VHS VCRs, there really is no discernable difference. Only in some rare situations can you see a difference. And the tape generally is so bad that neither will do much anyway.

The ES10 is for special needs only (tearing), and makes for a lousy general TBC.

[koberulz]

You mean this tape, or a tape that would create a difference between full-field and line TBCs?

Am I going to need to go on a power adapter hunt again with the TBC-1000? And is the converter issue also a problem with the VCR itself? The Philips has a European plug, and I've had it going through a converter, but the plug is part of the VCR so it doesn't seem possible to replace with an alternative anyway. Not sure if that will be the case with the NV-HS and ES10. I also picked up the SR388E I mentioned in the OP because it was really cheap, and I already have other functioning machines, so it's not too big a deal if it's in bad nick.

-- merged --

What's the story with the audio on this one? Is different equipment likely to get a better result? Is there anything I can do in software to fix it? Is it likely that the person who came up with the formula to determine Madrid's free-throw percentage was in charge of the rest of the broadcast?

The other thing I notice looking at that is how noisy it is, but then if you apply denoising everything slows down, so it's harder to actually see.

-- merged --

Quote:

Originally Posted by koberulz

Am I going to need to go on a power adapter hunt again with the TBC-1000?

On this subject...is the power adapter port on the AVT-8710 the same size as the one on the TBC-1000? The eBay listing for the 1000 I bought shows the back, which has the specs for the power adapter, which match the replacement AVT unit I got that only suits the new AVTs and not the old AVTs. So if the plugs are the same size, I've already got a spare Australian power adapter that should do the trick.

[lordsmurf]

stats.avi has an audio problem because tracking is off on playback. It's jumping from HiFi to linear playback

A really bad tape can show differences in that exact TBC comparison. The tape doesn't affect the TBC in any way. TBC always affects a tape. And in this case, the TBC will fail at some point. 2mb vs 4mb for JVC can also make a difference, but also only seen on really bad tapes. It's all about errors exceeding ability, and it fails to fix errors at some point.

I don't remember AVT/Cypress and DataVideo using like power adapters, no. But I can try to check. We have VP-299, but not TBC-1000 (so it may be different). And TBC-3000. No 1000.

The official DataVideo manual may have it. Download it on this site, if you do not have it.

[koberulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

stats.avi has an audio problem because tracking is off on playback. It's jumping from HiFi to linear playback

A really bad tape can show differences in that exact TBC comparison. The tape doesn't affect the TBC in any way. TBC always affects a tape. And in this case, the TBC will fail at some point. 2mb vs 4mb for JVC can also make a difference

I don't really follow this.

Quote:

I don't remember AVT/Cypress and DataVideo using like power adapters, no. But I can try to check. We have VP-299, but not TBC-1000 (so it may be different). And TBC-3000. No 1000.

The official DataVideo manual may have it. Download it on this site, if you do not have it.

They're not the same plugs, the TBC is 1.2A and the AVT is 1.25A, but we've established that doesn't matter. They're both 12V centre-positive. The only question is whether the AVT adapter physically fits into the TBC.

[lordsmurf]

I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Tracking affects both video and audio. VHS tapes almost always have a linear (usually mono, but not always) audio track. Many also have HiFi tracks. The VCR picks the best one available. When tracking is off, it bounces between them. HiFi also has the "bzzztt" static sounds, and mono has no static at all. Some higher-end VCRs let you select the desired track. (Note: JVC linear playback can be muffly. Panasonic better.)

The TBC differences are academic. Don't worry about them. You'll probably never see differences there. Don't confuse yourself needlessly here.

Okay, so volts and center-positive matches. But note that amps need to be minimums. However, 0.5A may not matter. I can go look at the size now...

.. and I can't find the VP-299 anywhere. The TBC-3000 plug is the same size as the Cypress/AVT TBC. Going from memory, and educated guess, it probably is the same physical size. (Note: The TBC-3000 power is much different.)

Trivia: The original idea was to merge a TBC-100 with a VP-299 to make our own TBC-1000. However, it's not easy, maybe impossible. It didn't work, it's been stored away for years, and has been moved 5-6 times. I probably need to list it for sale, as we'll never use it.

[koberulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Tracking affects both video and audio. VHS tapes almost always have a linear (usually mono, but not always) audio track. Many also have HiFi tracks. The VCR picks the best one available. When tracking is off, it bounces between them. HiFi also has the "bzzztt" static sounds, and mono has no static at all. Some higher-end VCRs let you select the desired track. (Note: JVC linear playback can be muffly. Panasonic better.)

So would I get a better result capturing that section with the linear track (I'm fairly sure my Philips can do that), and then combining the two audio captures myself in Premiere? Basically it'd just be the same thing minus the 'bzzztt' noises?

Quote:

Okay, so volts and center-positive matches. But note that amps need to be minimums. However, 0.5A may not matter. I can go look at the size now...

The power supply I have is the higher of the two, amps-wise, so all good (and it's 0.05A, not 0.5A).