VCR capturing: PAL/NTSC, SD, DV?

[harky]

Sure. When I got my capture USB.. I haven't receive it yet. Will post the diff

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

I can't find anything that indicates that model exists (all the Google results are random websites or forum posts that could easily be typos; no manuals or any listings on Philips' sites). Regardless, try it. Post a sample here if you can't tell whether it's working.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

The Philips DVDR3475/3575/3576 do perform passthrough line TBC.

I have the 3575, and have never seen it.

I tested it thoroughly in 2007/2008. It's only good for recording.

[msgohan]

Here are samples from a multi-generation VHS. Davideck and Mini-Me have talked about these machines on VH, which is why I bought one. Are we all imagining things?

Nth Gen - VC500.jpg

You must be logged in to view this content; either login or register for the forum. The attached screen shots, before/after images, photos and graphics are created/posted for the benefit of site members. And you are invited to join our digital media community.

[harky]

my video dont look tht bad actually

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

Here are samples from a multi-generation VHS. Davideck and Mini-Me have talked about these machines on VH, which is why I bought one. Are we all imagining things?

Attachment 6190
Attachment 6191

-- merged --

after long waiting... finally i got the USB-Live 2

is VirtualDub the only app to cap avi?

iuVCR dont look gd as i cant see any preview

[sanlyn]

I don't use iuVCR, but it's true that all capture software editions can't see every capture device in the world. VirtualDub capture works with the USB-Live2, assuming you have installed the Live-2's capture drivers. VirtualDub is used to capture analog source to lossless AVI using lossless compressors such as huffyuv, Lagarith, or UT Video Codec.

[lordsmurf]

About 15 years ago, a few BT8x8 cards hated VirtualDub, and worked better in iuVCR. But I've never liked it, and would rather just pick a better capture card. That said, sanlyn seems to confirm that your card works with VirtualDub, so why bother with iuVCR?

Yes, I made a guide for it many moons ago. But I never liked it. (I guess I need to update that guide as well.)

[harky]

i manage to setup VirtualDub
so now i try to cap using Huffyuv
i did not set any filter

this is play out by VCR itself using RCA..
later i will set and passby my dvd recorder player see if there is any improvement


1. any idea why the colour is like tht?
this is a KTV music video btw
https://youtu.be/zFQB-spBorU

2. Do i need to use S-Video -> USB Live2? or RCA? if i connect to DVD recorder out?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

About 15 years ago, a few BT8x8 cards hated VirtualDub, and worked better in iuVCR. But I've never liked it, and would rather just pick a better capture card. That said, sanlyn seems to confirm that your card works with VirtualDub, so why bother with iuVCR?

Yes, I made a guide for it many moons ago. But I never liked it. (I guess I need to update that guide as well.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

I don't use iuVCR, but it's true that all capture software editions can't see every capture device in the world. VirtualDub capture works with the USB-Live2, assuming you have installed the Live-2's capture drivers. VirtualDub is used to capture analog source to lossless AVI using lossless compressors such as huffyuv, Lagarith, or UT Video Codec.

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harky

Do i need to use S-Video -> USB Live2? or RCA? if i connect to DVD recorder out?

Use s-video out from the DVD recorder.

Can't offer any details from YouTube videos, especially if the site won't download properly. YouTube re-processes and re-encodes everything. How was the video played? How was it captured in VirtualDub (frame size, compressor)? Is the source PAL or NTSC? In the VirtualDub capture window's "Device" menu, what are the capture drivers that are listed, and which driver did you use?

[harky]

ehhhhhhhhh ok than i upload the file

Source ehhhh i live in singapore... actually our vcr can support both PAL or NTSC
VCR, DVD could be PAL while the tape is from Taiwan so could be NTSC?

I dont have S-Video cable so i use RCA (to what i understand S-Video is had better graphic, i will get it ASAP), so let set this aside.
the dvd giving better colour and graphc but i think i need a DVD recorder with TBC?
but my VCR give lousy colour and image but dont have any wave

Below are 30sec video from same part
DVD is Phillips DVD Recorder DVDR3570H
VCR is LG V9722W\
frame size 25

vcr (huffyuv64)
https://mega.nz/#!0YR2hSZZ!ZMFqv4bV7...JIrojHca7aIq04

vcr -(Lagarith)
https://mega.nz/#!4U5BkS5S!-orq01D0W...oI8TAGMFGj5kIk

VCR -> DVD using huffyuv64
https://mega.nz/#!dFQQhBJb!q2PV1Gnae...XXSSKU9QcQiHmg

VCR -> DVD using Lagarith
https://mega.nz/#!4NxxXCzJ!A4YQVjw9-...B50XzKC5fkV0SI

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harky

actually our vcr can support both PAL or NTSC

Most of those player types output quasi-PAL or quasi-NTSC for use with TV. They don't work properly with capture devices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harky

the tape is from Taiwan so could be NTSC?

If the tape runs at 25fps, it can't be NTSC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harky

i think i need a DVD recorder with TBC?

Yes. If your recorder has a tbc, it isn't doing anything. The DVD pass-thru images are badly distorted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harky

but my VCR give lousy colour and image but dont have any wave

The VCR's playback format problem was mentioned above. The "vcr" version has ragged edges and some distortion near borders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harky

frame size 25

25 is not a frame size. PAL video is 720x576. You cannot capture PAL to 720x480. You cannot capture NTSC at 25fps.

64-bit huffyuv? If you're using 64-bit VirtualDub and 64-bit Avisynth, you're going to be very disappointed when you see that less than a dozen or so 64-bit filters are available, but over 400 filters are available in 32-bit. Use 32-bit.

[harky]

my setup was 720 X 480

if i use 576, there is a green screen...

most of the setting is default.. the only thing i change the 720 X 480

There are some EXTRA screen which is not on tv but on Virtualdub

[sanlyn]

Thank you for chunks of the originals.

Your tape player is not a true PAL/NTSC bi-player. It doesn't output "real" NTSC. Your TV can play its output because the TV is one of many European TV's that have PAL-60 interpreters. But your capture device is not a TV tuner that accepts PAL-60. As far as I know there aren't any consumer or prosumer capture devices that accept PAL-60 properly.

Earlier I was under the impression that you were working with PAL sources and capturing for PAL digital formats. Now your statements are confusing. Are you trying to capture PAL to make NTSC digital video, or are you playing NTSC tapes to create PAL digital videos? In any event, you are using the wrong player for whatever it is you're trying to do.
-- If you're trying to go from PAL to NTSC, you must play PAL as PAL, capture as lossless PAL avi media, and restore to other desired formats during post-capture processing and encoding. The best tools for PAL to NTSC conversion are Avisynth and any good encoder.
-- If you're trying to capture NTSC using PAL-60 instead of true NTSC output, it won't work.
-- If you're trying to capture NTSC to PAL, that won't work either.

[EDIT]

Another oddity I noticed with the samples is that they are progressive video with periods of 2 duplicate frames, interspersed with 3 or 4 duplicate frames. The duplication pattern tells me that the original movie was created on film and telecined for tape or tv playback, but the tape is being output (or is being captured) as decoded progressive video. Usually, telecined tape whether NTSC or PAL is played and captured with hard-telecined frames intact and appearing as interlaced frames in editor windows.

If you are playing an NTSC tape via PAL-60 it should at least be attempted to capture as 720x480 @ 29.97 fps, not 25fps. Why Virtualdub capture is defaulting to 25fps for PAL-60 is something I don't understand. PAL-60 from NTSC outputs 59.94 interlaced fields per second, not 25 or 29.97 progressive frames per second. You can try setting the frame rate in VirtualDub to 29.97 fps. But that in itself probably won't change the fact that the source is being captured as progressive, with duplicate frames as well as dropped frames.

[harky]

i think the device only capture using PAL.
I did try to use the Hauppauge Capture and it cap using PAL, if i change to NTSC it dont give good graphic.

I will set it 720x480 @ 29.97 fps and try.. i manage to get a set of dvd recorder with tbc next week, hopefully it work

[sanlyn]

I understand the difficulties. However, the Hauppauge and many devices like it can capture PAL 720x576 at 25fps, and can capture NTSC 720x480 at 29.97 fps. But the Hauppauge and devices like it cannot capture PAL-60 input properly. If you want to capture NTSC tapes, you need an NTSC player. There are tape players that output both PAL and NTSC properly without getting into PAL-60, but they are very expensive premium units. Don't you have a PAL tape that you can use to help you learn to make workable captures?

[harky]

it an old tape..
somemore we live in asia.. so it quite common to had both PAL & NTSC

seriously i dont see any issue from my eye if i cap using PAL...
hw do u see it.

[sanlyn]

None of the samples you posted are PAL format. All of them have line timing errors, dropped frames, inserted frames, choppy playback, and stutter.

If they look OK to your eye, continue as you're doing.

[msgohan]

There is one user on VH who says the USB-Live2 can capture PAL60, but he hates VirtualDub. He uses DScaler for lossless and (old?) WinTV software otherwise.

Hopefully the DVD recorder that you bought also supports it.

[sanlyn]

I hear where some use Dscaler, but best to turn off deinterlacing, denoisers, etc. Those factors are better handled in post processing. If you have Asian VHS they use some oddball techniques to get film or other formats up to NTSC. Those faults can't be corrected with the usual deinterlace or inverse telecine capture filters. If Dscaler works, capture the tape as-is. Improper deinterlace or de-telecine or trying to correct frame or field blending during capture will ruin a video.

[harky]

Thanks both. I give it a try.

Win TV can't capture as lossless file.

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harky

Win TV can't capture as lossless file.

True. The user stated that WinTV wasn't used for lossless capture. The post refers to using DScaler as the capture software, which the user says can be set up to capture PAL-60 input as NTSC 720x480 / 29.97fps using huffyuv for a lossless avi.

http://www.videohelp.com/software/DScaler