Quantcast TRV-840, EV-S7000, EVO-9800A Comparison - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
05-30-2016, 07:01 PM
Cingular Cingular is offline
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I did not see any video comparisons of these models so I am volunteering this information.

My setup is VCR to a TecNEC 1.5ft S-Video cable to a Leitch DPS-475 with default settings with "TBC on" output though a 8ft of Belden 1694A SDI to a Kona LHI capture card to a 8 bit MOV then exported from Premiere CS 5.5 to an H.264 youtube SD mp4. No editing and no audio. Tapestock is a Sony 120 minute MP tape. There are a lot of drop outs, I should have packed the tape before playing.

These videos were originally recorded on a Sony TR700 and in my opinion that one seems like the best resolution and color. The Sony EVO-9800A came in second followed by the EV-S7000 (DNR on) and the last was the S-Video output o f the TRV-840. Opinions?

Notice how the EVO-9800 seems to show a different portion of the video frame? Thoughts or opinions? Is there a way to make this test/comparison more effective? Is there a "best" Hi-8 video playback machine?

A VCR technician told me that the EVO-9800 and 9850 had issues when they were new and he did not recommend them due to these issues.


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  #2  
06-01-2016, 02:59 PM
Cingular Cingular is offline
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Please see if you can remove the clips in the other post the type of compression youtube SD h.264 does alter them from the original 8-bit file so it invalidates the download for critical comparisons.

Here is the same test again capturing straight to DVCPRO50 on 15 second clips, there is no audio.

There is no tripod and the video subject is not idea but the three clips are on approximately the same footage for comparison purposes.

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions are welcome. I appreciate any insight.


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  #3  
06-03-2016, 11:22 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Thanks for these comparisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cingular View Post
Notice how the EVO-9800 seems to show a different portion of the video frame?
Once they are shifted horizontally to match, it's clear that they all output the same framing. Maybe you mean how the head-switching point at the bottom differs?

Quote:
These videos were originally recorded on a Sony TR700 and in my opinion that one seems like the best resolution and color. The Sony EVO-9800A came in second followed by the EV-S7000 (DNR on) and the last was the S-Video output o f the TRV-840. Opinions?
Brights are clipped in all of the samples. Adjusting the Contrast control of the DPS's Proc Amp may be able to correct this.

Least-to-most clipped (best to worst): EVO-9800A, TRV840, TR700, EV-S7000.

The next thing that jumps out at me is the dark oversharpening haloes on the TRV840.

I'll add some more impressions later. Gotta go, now. But it would be better if you're able to fix the clipping first.
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  #4  
06-04-2016, 09:19 PM
Cingular Cingular is offline
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That's right it's probably that head switching on the EVO-9800 that is different. Thanks for the impressions.

My ranking goes by certain scenes in the footage that were earlier in the tape. Like the blue trashcan, and pink shirt, and then accessing the colors and sharpness to see which looks closest to the original. Maybe I should capture 20 seconds earlier in the tape to include the blue trashcan scene? I know what color that trashcan is supposed to be and the lighting is better in thats scene. Also this camera has image stabilization which, if turned off and put on a tripod I am certain the image would be better.

The TRV-840 looks over processed or something like that, giving it a surreal look. It is interesting to learn what you can see in the videos, you have access to testing that I am unfamiliar.

I tried to cut out the first two minutes of the tape because of the dropouts when I did the DVCPRO50, leaving a less than optimal scene. I am considering recording some new test footage to retest with the camera mounted on a Tripod. I thought about using brick wall as a test subject to show color and resolution? Either way, I am only going to record sixty seconds and only put 20 seconds of that minute on DVCPR50.
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  #5  
06-07-2016, 07:46 AM
Cingular Cingular is offline
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Attached is a clip from earlier in the Video, I use the pink in the shirt and the blue in the trash can to judge color. Looking at the video’s again, the TRV-840 does look the brightest. The TRV-840 looks the most different, I am not sure exactly why, nor I am sure that effect is better? I no longer have the EVO-9800 only the right channel audio worked.

Msgohan, you seem to have access to the background and tools to see which output is best separating the subjectivity of perspective from science and truth. If you are able, see if you can discern which has the best video/audio output from these clips? Since the EV-S7000 is the only unit with a built in TBC, I ran it directly to the Kona LHi, so in theory it should have the best picture? The other three units do not have a built in TBC and, thus went through the Leitch DPS, so there should/might be wavy lines in the video output?


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  #6  
06-26-2016, 01:27 PM
Cingular Cingular is offline
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Still around. I tried to PM but it did not seem to work. ntxt
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  #7  
06-30-2016, 11:29 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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(The above post was in response to a PM from me asking whether Cingular is still around.)

Comments below are regarding the "better scene" sample from post #5.

When it cuts to the closeup, you can see the degree of temporal chroma ghosting caused by DNR. The EV-S7000 has the lowest amount, by far.

The EV-S7000 TBC isn't doing a very good job. The top of the picture is bent.

In the attached images I made a basic attempt to match the colors of the others to the TR700 since you said you prefer those colors.

I think my preference is actually the EVO-9800A. The TR700 looks a bit smeared in comparison. The EV-S7000 looks a little over-sharp and the TRV840 significantly over-sharp. In the attachment "set 2A" this is more clear than the closeup. If you look at the edges on the white shed, the TR700 has some sort of garbledness, dark halos, and diffuse white glow. On the EV-S7000 I primarily see white halos, and on the TRV840 wide dark halos. The EVO-9800A just looks normal.


Attached Files
File Type: zip Hi8 comparison - set 2.zip (2.42 MB, 9 downloads)
File Type: zip Hi8 comparison - set 2A.zip (2.43 MB, 7 downloads)

Last edited by msgohan; 06-30-2016 at 11:43 PM.
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  #8  
07-01-2016, 07:56 AM
Cingular Cingular is offline
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It is clear that you have access to more sophisticated methods and or equipment and experience to asses the images in a detail that I do not have access.

Either because of my training, equipment, experience, I do not see any halos or white glow.

I think the difference I see in the TRV-840 is from being oversharp. A lot of the difference I was seeing between different playback machines was perhaps a difference in sharpness.

The 9800A is a good choice because it looks good on my monitors and my arguments among the images are based more on color accuracy except for the TRV-840. So we both agree on that.

From your reply it seems that the EV-S7000 with the DNR off has the best playback? The EV-S7000 is the only unit with built-in TBC so if the image looks bent, the lines in the other videos should surely be bent. Unfortunately I no longer have the EVO-9800A, it was returned because only one channel of audio was working.

This comparison is interesting because I thought the general rule of thumb was that the camcorder that recorded the images had the best playback. Of course this is just a small sample of images from one 120 minute TDK Hi-8 MP tape.
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  #9  
07-01-2016, 10:11 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cingular View Post
Either because of my training, equipment, experience, I do not see any halos or white glow.
Probably best if you don't learn how to see them!

Quote:
From your reply it seems that the EV-S7000 with the DNR off has the best playback?
Nah:
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
I think my preference is actually the EVO-9800A.
The thing I mentioned about chroma ghosting isn't really problematic.

Quote:
The EV-S7000 is the only unit with built-in TBC so if the image looks bent, the lines in the other videos should surely be bent.
The DCR-TRV840 does have TBC (and DNR). Presumably, the DPS is straightening the EVO-9800A image, since that is a TBC itself.

BTW: the CCD-TR700 has an EDIT function according to the manual. Toggling this should alter the sharpness/softness.
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