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  #41  
07-30-2019, 05:30 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
1. What if some versions of HuffYUV do not have the "threshold" setting ?
What settings does HuffYUV set then - how does it work and how it capturing in VirtualDub ?
Since there is no threshold setting, it doesn't matter. Huffyuv doesn't capture anything. It's a compression codec. The threshold setting in older versions is a throwback to earlier days, no longer needsed.

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2. How set up VirtualDub so that the analog signal will be capturing and saved in the interlace (that's how the VHS recordings were made from what I know) ?
VirtualDub doesn't deinterlace during capture.
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  #42  
07-30-2019, 12:35 PM
dima dima is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Since there is no threshold setting, it doesn't matter. Huffyuv doesn't capture anything. It's a compression codec. The threshold setting in older versions is a throwback to earlier days, no longer needsed.
Thank you for information. So this "normal" version of HuffYUV available in this forum is fine for the best capturing, if I understand correctly.
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Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
VirtualDub doesn't deinterlace during capture.
So VirtualDub captures video only in interlacing ?
And whether in the editing mode and already saving a movie - this program: VirtualDub - writes video only in interlaced ? Because I don't see any option to change it.

VirtualDub captures in "upper" or "lower field first"[HuffVUV, PAL] ?

EDIT:
Probably I found reply: Determining field order of captured HuffYUV AVI?

But I still have a question: On VHS recorded in PAL what was the interlace used ? "Upper" or "lower field first" ?

Last edited by dima; 07-30-2019 at 01:16 PM.
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  #43  
07-30-2019, 03:51 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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VirtualDub captures interlaced video as interlaced.
VirtuaLDub captures progressive video as progressive.
VirtuaLDub captures telecined video as telecined.

Interlaced and telecined PAL and NTSC analog are recorded almost always as Top Field First, unless the person who made the tape was high on drugs or was simply stupid and decided to do it another way.

Consumer DV is usually Bottom Field First, but you never can tell what some maniac will do to it before you get to it.

In any case, VirtualDub does not change field order during capture.

After you have made a capture, you can determine the field order of the video by studying it frame by frame in VirtualDub or another editor, and make whatever changes you want. How would you do that? You consult articles such as the famous and classic html document: Neuron2: How To Analyze Video Frame Structure.

So, about when do you plan to actually make a capture so that you can finally see for yourself what happens?
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  #44  
07-31-2019, 01:15 AM
dima dima is offline
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As soon as I can.
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  #45  
07-31-2019, 09:06 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
As soon as I can.
Good show. You have to get accustomed to a handful of settings at first. But they're pretty straightforward. The rest is much less hazardous than you imagine at this point.
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  #46  
07-31-2019, 12:07 PM
dima dima is offline
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I want to be prepared for it the best - not to miss something and by accident do not do something that could harm the quality of the lost materials or do something that could harm them.
I hope that you will help me(just like it's been until now), according to your possibilities.
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  #47  
07-31-2019, 12:14 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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The usual mistake often made the first time by beginners is to try to capture too much. Your first 1 or 2 captures should be short, no more than 10 or 15 minutes each. Even the most experienced users make a short test to start. You will learn a lot from those first tests, and they can always be deleted.

Last edited by sanlyn; 07-31-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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  #48  
08-02-2019, 09:21 AM
dima dima is offline
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Will I find instructions and description of the VirtualDub program functions on the internet or somewhere ?

Does capturing the analog signal to a digital file (AVI) to the interventions affect the functions and settings from the "main menu" or only those from "Capture AVI ..." ?
And the other way round: is the VirtualDub's editing functions ("main menu") affected by the settings from "Capture AVI" ?

Can I save somehow the settings from the "main menu" and "Capture AVI" so that each time after leaving the program (and even the "Capture AVI" itself) do not reset them ?
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  #49  
08-02-2019, 10:18 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
Will I find instructions and description of the VirtualDub program functions on the internet or somewhere ?
Start Virtualdub.
Press the F1 key on your keyboard
Navigate the resulting dialog menu

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
Does capturing the analog signal to a digital file (AVI) to the interventions affect the functions and settings from the "main menu" or only those from "Capture AVI ..." ?
They don't affect each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
And the other way round: is the VirtualDub's editing functions ("main menu") affected by the settings from "Capture AVI" ?
They don't affect each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
Can I save somehow the settings from the "main menu" and "Capture AVI" so that each time after leaving the program (and even the "Capture AVI" itself) do not reset them ?
Filter,compressor,video processing mode, and audio process settings from the main menu dialog can be saved using a .vcf file. Loading the settings in a .vcf file will overwrite any other filters that might already be loaded. After loading a .vcf file, always re-check your filters and compressor to make sure you didn't forget that you might have changed something. You create a .vcf file by clicking "File..." -> "Save processing settings...", then give the .vcf file a name and location. DO NOT SAVE VCF FILES IN YOUR VIRTUALDUB PLUGINS FOLDER. Save them somewhere with your video project or in any other location you want. A .vcf is a plain text file that can be opened and examined with Notepad or any other text editor. Do not make changes unless you know what you're doing.

There is no way to save all capture settings, and no need to do so. Almost every setting will revert to the last setting used each time you open the capture app. In any case, even if there was a way to save everything it's not recommended. If you have the idea that all you have to do is use the same settings for every tape, click a command button, and nothing will go wrong, you'll be terribly disappointed. Analog being what it is, every tape will be different and should be checked before making the full capture..
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  #50  
08-05-2019, 02:01 AM
dima dima is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Since there is no threshold setting, it doesn't matter. Huffyuv doesn't capture anything. It's a compression codec. The threshold setting in older versions is a throwback to earlier days, no longer needsed.
1. I noticed that in the version 32-bit (from this forum) there is a version of HuffYUV v2.1.1 with the Threshold setting. For PAL capture (720 x 576 or even 768 x 576) should this be set to: 288 ?
The 64-bit version is without this setting. So it probably sets everything up by default(best) ?
Can I use some other version of HuffYUV(x32) to capture (which does not have the Threshold option) ? Will it be the best ?

2. For: "RGB compression method" should be best set: "Convert to YUY2" ? If it is capturing in YUY2 then the option: "RGB compression method" does not matter, does not work - does not affect the capture ?

3. For better capture, do not select the option: "Enable full size output-buffer (might fix crashing)"?
Do you know from experience how this option works and what does it do during capturing ? What are its effects ? It is better to uncheck her during the capturing ?

4. How many fps(frame rate) should be set for capturing interlaced PAL: 25 or 50 ?
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  #51  
08-07-2019, 02:19 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
I noticed that in the version 32-bit (from this forum) there is a version of HuffYUV v2.1.1 with the Threshold setting. For PAL capture (720 x 576 or even 768 x 576) should this be set to: 288 ?
The illustration in post #4 of Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide] shows the proper setup for the older version of huffyuv and explains why "288" is the preferred threshold for interlaced NTSC, interlaced PAL, progressive NTSC, progressive PAL, telecined NTSC, and telecined PAL.



"288" is the universal threshold that works for all of those formats. The only reason the older version is still used is because very old captures that used different thresholds can't be read by the newer huffyuv without some way of matching the threshold used in older captures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
The 64-bit version is without this setting.
The 64-bit version is the newest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
So it probably sets everything up by default(best) ?
The 64-bit version sets everything by its own internal default encoding and there is no way to change it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
Can I use some other version of HuffYUV(x32) to capture (which does not have the Threshold option) ?
You can use any huffyuv version you want. However, you cannot use 32-bit versions with 64-bit Virtualdub, and you can't use or 64-bit huffYUV with 32-bit VirtualDub.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
Will it be the best ?
The compression quality is the same for all versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
2. For: "RGB compression method" should be best set: "Convert to YUY2" ? If it is capturing in YUY2 then the option: "RGB compression method" does not matter, does not work - does not affect the capture ?
Use the "predict median" and "predict gradient" methods shown in the above image. The other methods are no longer recommended, they are for older processing you'll never use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
3. For better capture, do not select the option: "Enable full size output-buffer (might fix crashing)"?
Do you know from experience how this option works and what does it do during capturing ? What are its effects ? It is better to uncheck her during the capturing ?
If you are using Windows 3.1 and older Intel or AMD CPU's from the 1990's before Windows 98, you might need those options, but they didn't stop anything from crashing. They result in slower operation and lost/inserted frames with today's computers.

Don't use any of those blank check boxes for captures with operating systems newer than Windows 95. The optimum settings are shown in the image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima View Post
4. How many fps(frame rate) should be set for capturing interlaced PAL: 25 or 50 ?
[/quote]
You are not capturing individual fields. You are capturing frames.


PAL standard definition analog VHS, SVHS, VHS-C, 8mm camcorder, video8, BetaMax, and laser disc = 25 frames per second.


NTSC standard definition analog VHS, SVHS, VHS-C, 8mm camcorder, video8, BetaMax, and laser disc = 29.97 frames per second.
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  #52  
08-09-2019, 01:12 AM
dima dima is offline
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Thank you so much sanlyn.
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  #53  
08-13-2019, 12:47 AM
Iso_Kiho Iso_Kiho is offline
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Hello, I finally got my Windows XP Ati-all-in wonder computer up and running and now I'm wondering what are the correct settings for capture. I'm going to capture PAL VHS tapes, which have been recorded in Finland with different VCRs and Panasonic NV-RX10EG. So at the moment I'm wondering which PAL version should I pick?


Also I set up custom settings in "custom format" menu and I would like to know if they are correct for capturing PAL with huffyuv.


I was going to ask about framerate too, but luckily it has been explained above in great detail, thanks for that (So 25 fps for PAL, since capturing whole frames.)


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  #54  
08-13-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iso_Kiho View Post
I'm wondering which PAL version should I pick?
PAL-I. (When you select it, you'll know right away if right or wrong.)

Quote:
Also I set up custom settings in "custom format" menu and I would like to know if they are correct for capturing PAL with huffyuv.
Correct.

Quote:
So 25 fps for PAL
Correct.

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  #55  
08-13-2019, 01:26 PM
dima dima is offline
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Let's assume I'm not going:
- put the material on a DVD (and even if I can change the size from larger to smaller - probably without losing quality in this direction).
Let's assume that:
- the capture device or software has no restrictions on the resolution of the captured image.

For VHS capture in PAL resolution: 720 x 576(1.25:1) is recommended to capturing, where 768 x 576 is 4:3 image format(1.33: 1): VHS image format. I know that by increasing the resolution (examples two resolutions given) of capturing for VHS material I will not get "better quality".

Are the only reasons it is recommended to capture VHS in 720 x 576(and not in 768 x 576) for PAL is: DVD and more space taken by a file captured in a higher resolution ? Is it not better to capture the image in its original proportions(768 x 576) ?
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  #56  
08-13-2019, 02:09 PM
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Honestly, stop mentioning 768x576. It's not a valid resolution for anything. You'll just confuse yourself.

Capture native 720x576, the end.
If you want to force it to square pixel 4:3, such as for streaming use, then downconvert it to 720x540 in post-capture software.

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  #57  
08-14-2019, 02:07 AM
dima dima is offline
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This is not the answer to my questions from the above post...(at least not fully)
Maybe someone could answer me so that I would dispel all doubts and understand what's going on... ?

I can reproduce this resolution (768 x 576) without any problem from what I know (and I checked at least partially) on a TV (also through a decoder), a computer. I wouldn't need this captured material on DVD (and even if I could convert it down to 720 x 576 in postprocessing).
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  #58  
08-14-2019, 04:04 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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A tape of PAL VHS video is designed to play an image having a 4:3 aspect ratio. If you want to capture a frame whose aspect ratio is 4:3, the standard capture size would be 640x480.

Some reasons VHS is usually captured at 720x576 is because (a) the usual goal is produce a DVD or standard definition Bluray for final output, (b) 720x576 is a reasonable frame size offering adequate resolution for further processing and restoration work, and (c) 720x576 is an industry standard for PAL standard definition video.

768x576 is not a 4:3 image. If you are trying to stretch that captured image to fill a wider screen, you are distorting it. That's up to you. If you like watching distortion, that's your business. Don't expect anyone to gladly give you instructions on how to distort a video --= you have already managed to do that for yourself.

If you capture a 4:3 image at 640x480, you can process it after capture for different frame sizes that would still be 4:3 images. Some standard 4:3 frame sizes are 400x300, 768x576, 960x720, and 1440x1080. Apparently you don't yet have an understanding of what an aspect ratio is, and you don't understand anamorphic or square-pixel frame display. Several replies have attempted to explain the choices you have for processing, but you continue to try to re-invent the wheel. Perhaps you should browse through some of the forum posts in the capture forum and the restoration forum to get a better idea of how other users are properly processing their videos.

No one can help you with further details unless you submit a sample of an unaltered image or section of video. Screen captures and altered images are not usable. You can can capture a frame directly from a video by opening the video in VirtualDub. Scroll to a frame that you want to be studied. Then in VirtualDub's top menu click "Video.." -> then click "capture source frame to clipboard". You can then open an image processing program and create a new jpg or png image that you can post. One imageprogram that can accept images saved to the clipboard is the free Windows Paint or MSPaint.

Understanding image aspect ratios is fundamental to working with video. If you don't understand it, you're working against yourself for nothing. On the other hand, you can make the frame size anything you want. It's your video, not ours.

https://idearocketanimation.com/1666...t-ratio-guide/
https://www.red.com/red-101/video-aspect-ratios
https://www.mediacollege.com/video/aspect-ratio/
https://nofilmschool.com/Aspect-Rati...For-Filmmakers
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  #59  
08-14-2019, 09:18 AM
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If you capture PAL at 640x480, you'll screw up the interlacing. It must be 720x576.

Most capture software will not even go to 768, because it's not valid.

Capture the spec res. You can convert it to whatever else is needed post-capture. Noting that 768x576 is wholly useless, the 4x3 is 720x540, and deinterlaced. I guess, technically, 768x576 would retain interlace, but no interlaced (player) device will view it, not a valid res. The source does not contain 768 detail, nor even 720.

I never dismiss with "it's your video" because the person is not an island, and will always try to share the video. I refuse to give them that excuse. They shouldn't screw it up, use lower quality, etc. Don't subject others to your own laziness and stubbornness. Most people appreciate good video quality, even if you (the person doing it) does not.

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  #60  
08-14-2019, 10:40 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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The forum has many examples of PAL video captured at 640x480 (by users who say they "can't work" with an anamorphic frame size because it "looks strange" in their editors). On the other hand, if dima resizes to the suggested 720x540 he'll get a very unpleasant surprise with interlaced footage unless it's first deinterlaced -- and VDub and many NLE's don't deinterlace all that well. On top of that a 540 height isn't mod-8, so some Avisynth and VDub filters that require mod-8 dimensions will either refuse to run or will crash or distort. And many encoders/decoders/compressors don't care for mod-4 dimensions.

My preference would be to capture to 720x576 and learn to use Avisynth at very basic levels to deinterlace and resize as desired. He doesn't need an in-depth knowledge of MaskTools or dither tools to get the job accomplished.
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