AIW x1800XL PCIE vs. ATI 7500 VE PCI vs. 128 PCI?
Any reason why I would want to purchase a 7500 VE PCI over a X1800 PCIE?
With the exception of the PCIE - PCI difference. And of the form factor. Both are not a concern for me. I also saw a AIW 128 PCI. Should I purchase this over the X1800 PCIE? Obviously, my main concern is video transfer, and I do not have any Macromedia protected tapes. Appreciate it. P.S. I cannot purchase AGP cards, as I do not have AGP slots in any of my motherboards. |
Hi Dana2
I am new newby here and am putting together an ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon X1800 GTO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express XP machine together after getting unacceptable results on an usb based Dazzle (Win XP) and an usb based Honestech (win 7) converter. The Idea is to convert VHS tapes. Dont Have an opinion on this card yet as I Haven't received it yet from EBAY as well as the ATI Purple Adapter which I ordered also from EBAY. I can say that It doesnt cost much to experiment with the card as my cost was less than 25 dollars shipped for both card and adapter. I will share my results in a week or two. Scott A side note and maybe a little bit humorous about the software based encoding Dazzle usb converter is that after recording 1 movie, while playing back the movie on the Windows XP 32 bit computer I for the first time ever burned out (overheated) the cpu of the PC. It is a INTEL CELERON D 331 2.66GHZ 533MHZ. I put another used CPU back in and the machine is running again. Yes I had quite a bit of dust on the heat sink (contributing factor) which I washed off in the kitchen sink before restoring. OH an To the Forum. Nice to meet you and Thank You for allowing me to join! |
Thanks Scott.
Anybody else having an opinion? |
704/720
The cards, or rather the drivers, behave differently. You have to understand the hardware. Offhand, I forget the exact number, but the Theatre chipsets capture at about 710x480. Realize that analog isn't measured in pixels. The ATI card resizes in the chip to 704x480, and then the driver interprets it into 704x480 (352=50%) or 720x480 ... or whatever else (and those numbers don't matter here for this conversation). The PCI and AGP cards all send 704, and the drivers center it when captured 720 (in a matte to retain proper aspect), and then MMC (when used) sometimes decides that 720 isn't allowed. The PCIe cards all left justify it, and you're left with a large right matte for 720. It's in the overscan, but you may notice it on certain types of content. It's looks perfect at 704 and 640. However, it gets more interesting. The PCIe cards show the entire frame of video, from edge to edge (left/right, not top/bottom). There are some PCIe drivers that center, but then MMC won't work, and it simply crops. So you're not getting 100% edges -- though it usually does not matter, as it's a small crop. The AGP and PCI depends on driver -- there were many -- but it usually centers, within a pixel of the image boundary. The PCIe cards also have a nuisance of recording 720x960 in MMC, because of the good drivers. You have to hack the registry to allows make it x480. The registry setting of "480" is x960, and "240" is the correct 480. it's some sort of goof on the part of ATI, right before AMD bought it, and that was never fixed. It's random, and you may not see it. I prefer the AGP cards. Don't mistake this as saying PCIe is bad, or PCI good. Just different. Both give excellent results. :) I never tested PAL x5756/x288 for these minor differences, but it's probably the same. Heat The PCIe cards run hotter and stock heatsink fan is noisy. They run best (and quiet!) when that crappy heatsink is removed, and replaced with the Zalman VF700-CU. Under $35 here: https://www.amazon.com/Zalman-VF700-...227aef188f2159 (Note: The 2006 PCIe doesn't work with that Zalman. But you can mod it with then run a case fan across the heatsink. I just finished building a system like that. It works well.) The PCI and AGP cards mostly don't have fans. And when they don't, I just unplug them. The heatsink alone is adequate for those cards. It barely gets warm after a day of use. MMC AGP and PCI use ATI MMC 7 through 9.0x. The PCIe cards use 9.1x, and that's it. After 9.1x, the AIW series ended. MMC 9.1x doesn't report dropped frames, which can be important. It's also very finicky, requiring registry hacks to work correctly. The hardware-only MPEG is blocky, while the "software" (actually hybrid software/hardware) is the classic high-quality ATI MMC MPEG capturing. When using the AGP cards, MMC 8 is best, specially 8.7 to 8.9, which all allow VideoSoap. And Sometimes VS is useful. Tip: If an MMC version won't allow 720 with your card, just try another one (8.7 to 9.0x). Most DVD authoring software will not allow 704, and BD spec is 720 only for SD. 128 You don't want these. Most of the 128 cards are not Theatre, pre-Radeon, and use ATI MMC 6-7. Only the "128 Pro" uses Theatre chips, but has to be hacked to use ATI MMC 8. You don't want MMC 6-7, as it has problems. I forget if the 128 Pro is considered a Radeon. |
Thank you LordSmurf for a VERY detailed explanation. Do you happen to know if all the required connectors were included with these cards? (input and output) Or one had to buy them separately.
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I received my All-In-Wonder Radeon X1800 and my input breakout box yesterday. I believe the card is a non 2006 model. It has two DVI (both output?) connectors and a 9 pin DIN female input. The purple breakout box male 9 pin DIN fit snugly and did not create a bent pin condition when I tested it.
Started loading Windows XP Home Edition 32 bit on the following components that were purchased new in Jan of 2013 Mobo. MSI A75A-G35 FM1 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI ATX AMD with UEFI BIOS among others it has 2 PCIE slots (x16, x4) Processor. AMD A6-3650 Llano Quad-Core 2.6 GHz Socket FM1 100W Ram. Transcend JetRam 8GB total (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Error right away on software installation. I pull one stick of ram out and reboot. This time it loads further but end up with "blue screen error "IRQL not less or equal" during final stages of installation. I think still too much ram (4 GB) for windows XP, I ordered G.SKILL NS 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory. When I receive my latest shipment I will try again with the smaller (2gB) RAM. Scott |
The C1800 sounds OK, but if you're installing XP Service Pack 1 you need Service Pak 2 for PCIe. If you have an SP1 XP disc, you can use nLite software to slipstream Service Pack 2 into the XP install on a new boot CD. Takes just a few minutes, but it's pretty straightforward with nLite. My XP was installed with an nLite CD the same way. Here are two links with the same problems, with links to the software that can make the fixed boot disc:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/23...l-intel-dp35dp http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/24..._less_or_equal |
I always hated building new capture systems. I'm hopefully done with it. I built 3 systems this year, using up all my spare hardware. There were many hardware and driver issues along the way. (One is my new backup, and I'm selling the other pair. One is already sold, and I'll be putting the last one up for sale this month or next month.)
Tip: Don't add more than 4gb RAM to Windows XP, and preferably just 2gb. More RAM will just piss it off. I really think you're already pushing your luck. For a capture box, that hardware is overkill. The sweet spot for ATI AIW hardware is 2005-2010, either single- or dual-core, preferably Intel or non-single AMD. Your setup looks to be from around 2012. The newer hardware gets, the more likely it will have Windows XP driver issues. |
XP 32 won't recognize more than 3 GB of RAM. I have a triple boot system, with 32 GB of RAM. I do not have any problems booting it in Windows XP, 32 bit.
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XP can use 3.25, 3.5, or 3.75. I've never understood why it varies like that. Must be hardware related.
I have a 4gb setup here that sees 3.25gb. And it usually won't use more than 2gb anyway. The rest is idle. |
Yes, indeed it is hardware related :) Maximum addressable space on a 32 bit operating system is 4 gb. That means that using 32 bit combinations of ones and zeros, one cannot identify with precision more than 4 gb distinct locations.
We must remember that the system must reserve addressable space for its hardware as well. I.e. if you have a graphics card with 512 mb internal memory, then addressable space must be reserved for those 512mb :) But then, the computer must reserve address space for its BIOS, for interrupts, etc. Whatever remains, the computer will use it to address RAM locations. |
I received my shipment of new 2GB ram yesterday. Sure enough, It did not make any difference in the loading process (Still got "IRQL not less or equal" error message that i got with 4GB ram).
This morning the box was loaded with (newly created by nlite) slipstreamed XP home SP1/SP2 CD. I did not have to Select F6 during the install to add drivers even though my optical drive and Kingston solid state hard drive are both SATA. I dont know if BIOS is providing the SATA interface or maybe SP2 has drivers for them. So All is good. Thanks Lordsmurf and Dana2 for your assistance. nlite is a cool tool ! A note about nlite. I first installed nlite on my windows 10 pro HP Elitebook core I5 laptop thinking to make the disk, couldn't get it to work for windows XP. The GUI is quite different from the tutorials I found online. I installed nlite to a Windows 7 (pro) desktop and It worked there to make a the slipstream Windows XP/SP2 CD. The user interface matches more closely the online tutorials I found. When downloading the installer from the same link it seemed a different instance of nlite materializes for win 10 than it does for win 7. I put windows 3.1 installer onboard and then Net Framework 2.0. Waiting for a DVI to VGA adapter that is on order to actually test the card, meanwhile I am going to load the ATI software for the card and see what it looks like. Scott |
Most motherboards won't support XP in SATA drive mode, set IDE mode for that in our BIOS. If the system is working, then apparently this was done by default.
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The AIW X1800XL PCIe card does something the AGP cards don't, namely capture audio directly from the card's input jacks. You don't have to use your sound card for audio and worry about sync problems.
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I just built 4 capture systems: 3 have AHCI (native SATA), 1 refuses. |
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Using the same hardware setup as I described in post #6 except with 2 GB ram after a fresh win xp install I perform the following.
Install windows software update installer 3.1 KB893803 required to install .NET Framework 2.0 (available from microsoft website)} Install .NET Framework 2.0 service pack 1 (available from microsoft website) Create a file on the desktop name it direct x 9.0, extract DirectX 9.0c Redistributable to that file, open the file and run setup. The Direct X Runtime install says it may there take a few minutes but finishes almost instantaneously so I am suspect it is not doing anything. From Support at AMD.com I download and install in the following order per instructions 1 DAO/MDAC 2 Encoder Package 3 Multimedia Center Alternatively I have also tried on a fresh windows xp install using the drivers from this website at " ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC" page 3, post #48. Application wise "I am getting a working Catalyst Control Center which seems to provide display drivers as well as a video format converter. What I do not get is the MMC to use for capture. Here is what is showing up in the Add or Remove Programs ATI AVIVO Codecs from ATI Technologies version 10.0.0.40103 ATI Catalyst control Center version 2.010.0210.2338 ATI Display Driver version 8.593.100-100210a-095952E-ATI ATI Parental Control & Encoder ATI Technologies In. version 3.0 DAO version 3.5. Titan TV client 1.0.6, USB video driver version 1.00 from EETI, Windows Driver package from eMPIA Technology (emAudio) version 08/31/2007 5.7.0831.0, Windows Driver Package Advanced Micro device, Inc (USB28xxBGA) Media version 08/31/2007 5.70831.0 Windows Media Encoder 9 series Here is what Catalyst Contyrol Center is telling me about my AIW card. Primary Adapter Graphics Card Manufacturer Built by ATI Graphics Chipset Radeon X1800 GTO Device ID 710A Vendor 1002 Subsystem ID 0B12 Subsystem Vendor ID 1002 Graphics Bus Capability PCI Express Maximum Bus Setting PCI Express x16 BIOS Version 009.012.004.002 BIOS Part Number 113-A52003-104 BIOS Date 2006/03/14 Memory Size 256 MB Memory Type DDR3 Core Clock in MHz 500 MHz Memory Clock in MHz 495 MHz My Apologies for the long post. my Question is does anyone see what I am missing, doing out of order and/or doing wrong? Thanks Scott -- merged -- I forgot some information which I will add. At http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/archive/mmc9-16 I have been downloading files that I think should result in Multimedia Center 9.16. The files that I have downloaded and tried from this site at " ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC" page 3, post #48 I believe also should result in Multimedia Center 9.16. I can try another version of MMC also if if may work better. |
Hi All
I have been thrashing the MSI A75A-G35 type motherboard computer with operating system ( windows XP pro sp2) fresh installs. After loading software for my AIW X1800 video capture card in several sequences and combinations. Here is what I have found. The card is working for display and the computer sees the capture portion of the card. Even though I still cant get a AIW capture application to run, I can capture video through my X1800 card through Windows Movie Maker. I input video from a VCR to the composite input of the purple AV INPUT ADAPTER but Movie Maker doesnt see the video there. When I select SVideo in Movie Maker I get video but without color.:hmm: The Audio I have to route through the one of the mobo onboard audio inputs to get sound. I installed Pinnacle Studio 10.5 and can also capture there also albeit with the backwards composite/SVideo setting and no color. The next thing to try is an SVideo source- dont think I have one. Yes I know a little pathetic,:o I am using a little barebones VCR, a Sony SLV-N55 which for a cheapo does very well. Is there another standalone version of MMC that I should try? I have tried 9.14 and 9.16 to no avail. That and trying a SVideo input will point to whether my card has a problem with spitting out color or not. Thanks in advance for comments Scott |
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Sorry you're having problems with MMC. It would take some system analysis to solve the problem. All AIW cards require that you remove your previous graphics card and its software before installing an AIW card. Di you do that?
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Very detailed setup guide and everything you need to know for VirtualDub capture with an AIW card: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-settings.html The ATI 1800 Setup and User's Guide is attached. |
Thanks sanlyn for the reply. I will try Virtualdub:smack:
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