Quantcast Video stutter problem from VHS tape? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
01-22-2017, 04:42 PM
SinghDk SinghDk is offline
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Hi all,

Certain one of my VHS give me a weird stutter, leading to many many many frames being inserted by virtualdub. Other tapes will play fine, some of them just go frame insertion crazy.

The tapes themselves are fine(Nothing wrong that the naked eye can see), anyone who can enlighten me as to what is going wrong? Using a JVC9600 with TBC and a ATI AIW card, dedicated Xp machine.

Video's on dropbox here - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ipms6th4x...rDQa7D_Ja?dl=0
  • It's 5 mins but 1 gb(How you can download that?) - Straight from HuffyUV
  • I tried making a h265 version which clocks in at 188 mb, but the video/audio sync is botched(Not that it matters, as the stutter still shows )

Last edited by SinghDk; 01-22-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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  #2  
01-22-2017, 05:10 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Your 1GB sample refuses to download and is far too much to work with. Huffyuv can be edited Virtualdub without changing the codec or other properties. Ask if you don't know how. I doubt that anyone will bother to download a 1GB file.

Your smaller file isn't an original, but has been very thoroughly destroyed. It looks and plays differently in every media player (it's upside down in MPC-BE).

h.265 has a long way to go for widespread acceptance and is currently in the fad stage with newcomers and hobbyists. Why do you find it appealing?
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  #3  
01-23-2017, 05:35 AM
SinghDk SinghDk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Your 1GB sample refuses to download and is far too much to work with. Huffyuv can be edited Virtualdub without changing the codec or other properties. Ask if you don't know how. I doubt that anyone will bother to download a 1GB file.

Your smaller file isn't an original, but has been very thoroughly destroyed. It looks and plays differently in every media player (it's upside down in MPC-BE).

h.265 has a long way to go for widespread acceptance and is currently in the fad stage with newcomers and hobbyists. Why do you find it appealing?
The 1GB is straight from the VHS capture in VirtualDub(with HuffyUV) but the 5 mins gave me a 1GB file. I can try cutting it down to 1 min perhaps?

The smaller file was just a attempt to quickly cut down the 1GB file, I have no love for H265, just thought that's the newest and hopefully best compressing - If you have some advise as to making a smaller file or a codec to compress to make a smaller file that wont destroy it, please do tell.
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01-23-2017, 07:32 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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h.265 is still in development and not mainstream, with a long way to go. Many GPU makers don't make OEM GPU processing devices that will handle it correctly, nor do many media players. If you want higher compression use h.264. We recommend that if you want to post unaltered huffyuv (not really necessary to illustrate for this stutter problem), several seconds of original video in huffyuv/YUY2 would not be more than the 99MB limit for posting in this forum. Outside hosting sites are generally not recommended for various reasons -- for one thing, once the file is removed from offsite the video will no longer be available for other readers to understand the discussion. You can save huffyuv samples in VirtualDub after editing by saving the sample using "direct stream copy" mode.

Inserted (duplicate) and dropped frames indicate that a frame-sync external tbc is needed for proper playback of the tape into a capture device. All capture software is limited when it comes to frame sync problems, so you can't always blame the software. The TBC in your JVC player is a line-level tbc that performs no frame sync timing correction.
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01-23-2017, 08:10 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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"VHS give me a weird stutter" is too generic. I need to see a capture. It could be anything from a tape error to simple reversed interlace on the capture. As stated, the too-large-anyway Dropbox attachment is not downloading.

H.265 aka HEVC aka x265 works fine. It's not really "in development", but simply unpopular. It only gives compresses to about 65% of H.264, yet requires huge leaps in processing power to decode and encode. It's just not worth the investment and hassles right now, and may never be. Anytime I get HEVC video, the first thing I do is extract it back to x264 so it can be viewed on regular devices.

There's no need to deal with large AVI files in the situation. Encode your sample to high-bitrate H.264/x264 or MPEG 4:2:2, and attach that. Small file, same quality. Use Avidemux 2.6 for x264.

Then attach the small under-99mb file to the forum.

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  #6  
01-23-2017, 04:11 PM
SinghDk SinghDk is offline
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I've attached a 40 sec video here - Straight with HuffyUV, no encoding.

The 40 sec show the problem fine.


Attached Files
File Type: avi Small.avi (86.52 MB, 21 downloads)
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  #7  
01-24-2017, 07:05 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Thank you for the new sample. It's easier to analyze.

You have stutter of course because of inserted and dropped frames, but you have vertical jitter and frame hopping as well. Again, these indicate that you need an external frame-sync tbc. The line tbc in your JVC and a frame-level tbc perform two different tasks. Line-level tbc's don't perform frame timing sync. The frame rate might be correct (25fps) but each frame doesn't arrive "on time" in sequence. In order to maintain the frame rate your capture drivers and software must insert or drop frames. What is a TBC? Time Base Correction for Videotapes

Prosumer frame tbc's usually recommended are the AVT-8710 or the TBC-1000. The AVT has quality issues unless you can find one of the earlier models, and the TBC-1000 is out of production. Shop-grade professional TBC's can be found, but they're even more expensive and won't work with consumer VHS. A less expensive alternative would be to use a DVD recorder in pass-thru mode -- connect the VCR to the DVD's input, then connect the DVD's output to the capture device. The machine isn't used to record but is used to allow the video to "play through" the unit, which is why the term pass-thru is used. This takes advantage of the machine's built-in frame sync circuit. But all DVD players don't work in pass-thru mode. The models usually recommended are the older Panasonic DMR-ES10 or ES15, or some older pre-2006 Toshiba models can be used.

Also, you're probably using default VirtualDub capture timings that are not optimized for your specific setup. A later setup guide for VDub capture is here: Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide]. You can disable the frame timing options -- the result would often be fewer dropped frames but loss of audio sync without a TBC.

huffyuv-MT is obsolete and is usually slower in multi-core systems. Multi-core and multi-threading are not the same thing. Using the older MT version with a multi-core processor gives no advantage. I'd suggest removing huffyuv "MT" and using a newer version 2.1.1 designed for modern computers: http://www.videohelp.com/download/huffyuv-2.1.1.zip. An image showing the setup windows for a couple of lossless compressors is in this post (scroll down): Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide].
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  #8  
01-26-2017, 12:32 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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I can't open the attachment.

After the hassles I had some months back with Huffyuv (32+64), on my new system, I'm not willing to install the now-obsolete MT version. It may overwrite something. MT was never suggested for capture anyway, only as intermediary for processing for editing/restoration. Modern true multicore lossless is something like MagicYUV -- but again, not for capture.

Try again.

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