Quantcast Evaluate my setup and test captures? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
02-08-2017, 11:52 AM
kooz kooz is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Hi guys, first post here. I've been closely studying guides and forum advice here in preparation for a VHS/Video 8/Digital 8 archival project that I've been ignoring for far too long, and I'd like to share what I've got so far in the hope of receiving some constructive feedback/guidance.

I've had a decent VCR ready to go after coming across a great deal ($20!) on craigslist several years ago. At that time, I originally planned (like many other visitors here) on just using the Digital 8 camcorder as a hardware DV capture device for the analog tapes.

Inevitably at some point I stumbled upon DigitalFAQ, which brought to me enlightenment, followed by a lack of motivation upon the realization of the true scope of the project ahead of me.

Well... fast forward to now - I'm sick of the zip-locked pile of tapes collecting dust in the corner of my desk. I've had plenty of time to re-calibrate my expectations. Meanwhile, data storage has continued to become cheaper and more abundant, and Blu-ray is now a financially reasonable archival media. Motivation has manifest itself.

I went ahead and built an early-2000's era machine that I believe should receive the nod of approval.

I found a brand new 9200 AIW on eBay for $40 shipped. It still had the retail price stickers on the shrink wrap and everything... it was a pretty cool experience to unbox.

I've already captured a few old tapes, and it seems to be going well. No frames dropped over the course of a 4.5 hour capture (mid-80's era, multiple speeds).

Before I go any further though, I wanted to test my hardware and get some opinions, which could potentially save me a lot of time and frustration in the event that I'm doing something wrong.

A box of new old stock tapes arrived this morning, finally giving me the opportunity to put the VCR's health and performance to the test.

Here's the test setup!

Source:
msgohan's VHPatterns2 test DVD
Sony PlayStation 3 CECHP01 160 GB @ 480i > S-video
JVC SR-V10U (Video calibration: ON, Picture mode: EDIT, Digital R3: OFF, Video stabilizer: OFF, TBC: ON)

Capture PC:
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ @ 1833 MHz
Asus A7N9X v2.0 Deluxe
1 GB dual channel DDR333 (2 x 512 MB)
ATI All-In-Wonder 9200 AGP 128 MB
On-board Realtek C650/nForce MCP2 audio
OCZ Vertex 3 120 GB SSD
Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM 2 TB HDD
Windows XP Professional SP2
ATI Catalyst 06.11, MMC 8.8.0.0
VirtualDub 1.10.4 using settings from VDub capture guide.


1st capture: Direct real-time capture of test DVD playback through entire hardware path
2nd capture: Playback of S-VHS recording on new old stock TDK XP Super Pro ST-120XPSP


Attached Files
File Type: avi test 01 - passthru.avi (59.51 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: avi test 01 - svhs tape.avi (66.48 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: avi test 02 - passthru.avi (67.49 MB, 2 downloads)
File Type: avi test 02 - svhs tape.avi (71.20 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: avi test 03 - passthru.avi (27.64 MB, 2 downloads)
File Type: avi test 03 - svhs tape.avi (32.82 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: avi test 04 - passthru.avi (18.12 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: avi test 04 - svhs tape.avi (18.63 MB, 2 downloads)
File Type: avi test 05 - passthru.avi (22.23 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: avi test 05 - svhs tape.avi (25.38 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: avi test 06 - passthru.avi (29.20 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: avi test 06 - svhs tape.avi (33.00 MB, 4 downloads)
File Type: avi test 07 - passthru.avi (64.77 MB, 2 downloads)
File Type: avi test 07 - svhs tape.avi (74.60 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: avi test 08 - passthru.avi (34.84 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: avi test 08 - svhs tape.avi (38.35 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: avi test 09 - passthru.avi (53.61 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: avi test 09 - svhs tape.avi (58.84 MB, 1 downloads)
File Type: avi test 10 - passthru.avi (67.85 MB, 4 downloads)
File Type: avi test 10 - svhs tape.avi (75.48 MB, 4 downloads)
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
02-08-2017, 09:03 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,219
Thanked 1,354 Times in 1,193 Posts
Onboard audio is iffy, better test it for distortions and level issues. Be sure NOT to capture more than 50-65% max audio value. Not play, but record settings in XP audio controls (OS, not ATI, noting that ATI+OS are connected).

Otherwise, single-core capture setup looks fine, fit for lossless or SD res MPEG capturing.

I don't see major issues from the test, but it's just a pattern. I prefer actual footage tests. True, it adds a variable to the equation (the tape), but patterns are what the manufacturer used. Real-world testing offer differs.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
02-13-2017, 11:43 PM
kooz kooz is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanks for the input lordsmurf!

I did have a feeling that the on-board audio might raise a few eyebrows... I tried two other cards (SB Live! 5.1 and SB Live! 24-bit) prior to making that choice - both cards were failing the clock sync test in MMC's self-diagnostic.

I have exercised with caution and am capturing at 50% record level. This is the Windows/audio driver's default value and the levels are hot enough not to worry about huge SNR loss while still staying out of danger of clipping.

The processor is at 25-35% load while capturing to Huffyuv @ 640x480, and that's the only thing I need it for. That utilization seems high to me, but it has been relentlessly stable with no frames dropped whatsoever.

I've gotten through capturing 5 or 6 tapes with little to no drama, but the other morning I came across a tape that did not want to play nicely. I was getting a ton of the JVC TBC vertical shaking, my sync graphs were going crazy, and even though VDub was reporting no frames dropped, I could visibly see that it was happening.

After doing some further testing it appeared to be the TBC itself dropping frames. Turning it off just made things even worse though, with the top edge bending, flickering and fading to white.

At this point I figured I needed an external TBC of some sort. Coincidentally, I happened to snag a DVD recorder off craigslist for $5 at around the same time I purchased the VCR. It was DOA, but after an easy re-cap, I got it up and running and it has been collecting dust on the shelf up until now. The unit is a Panasonic DMR-ES65. I knew nothing about it, but I recalled other Panasonic DVD recorders being used for this purpose so I figured I'd give it a shot...

And... holy crap, it's awesome!

With the DMR-ES65 daisy-chained in between the VCR and capture card, I am able to get a rock solid image with the JVC internal TBC turned off! VDub's sync graphs are extremely stable, and there are no frames being dropped by the TBC.

This is both exciting and very confusing, as everything I've read regarding this type of TBC (if it is even considered to be a TBC) is that they're basically worthless.

I will post some samples when I get home. I have some questions to ask but I'll save them for later... I'm worried my posts are too long for anyone to bother reading.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
02-13-2017, 11:51 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,219
Thanked 1,354 Times in 1,193 Posts
MMC's clock-sync test can be fubar. It may give false results.

You probably need an external full-frame TBC in there. Note that I have some available for about $400 each: a Kramer, and I'm about to add a DataVideo TBC-1000. All my 8710s and TBC-3000s are now gone, assuming there's none hiding in a box still.

The ES10/15 have a TBC (not 100%, but close enough). The ES65 may be similar, but I didn't think so. We need to make a list of viable TBCs sometime, aside from the obvious choices. If you have S-VHS-ET, bad VHS, an ertail tapes, etc, you''ll still run into issues.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
02-14-2017, 04:54 AM
kooz kooz is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
MMC's clock-sync test can be fubar. It may give false results.
Okay, that's good to know, though I'm hopefully past the PC hardware trial phase at this point.

Quote:
You probably need an external full-frame TBC in there.
That's exactly what I was thinking, but the results after passing through the ES65 have definitely surprised me. I will be sure to upload some samples when I get home a little later. Perhaps I've stumbled upon an unrealized gem.

Quote:
I have some available for about $400 each: a Kramer, and I'm about to add a DataVideo TBC-1000.
That's definitely some primo equipment. I'm trying to do this project as properly as I can while keeping the budget to a minimum, as it's only for old personal family footage. The project itself is small - for the analog stuff there are maybe twenty VHS and ten Video 8 tapes. It's important enough to me to not half-ass it, though. Once I get some clips uploaded, maybe you can tell me whether it would be worthwhile or not.

Quote:
If you have S-VHS-ET, bad VHS, an ertail tapes, etc, you''ll still run into issues.
No S-VHS(ET) or retail, just some problematic VHS which I'm fairly certain are Video 8 > VHS dubs.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
02-14-2017, 05:48 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,219
Thanked 1,354 Times in 1,193 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kooz View Post
That's definitely some primo equipment. I'm trying to do this project as properly as I can while keeping the budget to a minimum, as it's only for old personal family footage
Buy it, use it, resell it.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
02-14-2017, 08:10 AM
kooz kooz is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Haha, you've definitely got a point, there. $400 is a lot to float (for me), but that's certainly an option as long as there's a demand out there.

Before we rush to any hasty decisions though, here are some capture samples, as promised.

The following VHS clip takes place 38 minutes into a compilation of scenes which originated from Video 8 sources. It is a worst-case example for disrupting TBC and capture sync.

Filenames should be self-explanatory I think. The "no tbc" sample is basically useless, except to illustrate that that is the source I'm feeding directly into the E65.

I will follow up with a typical example in a bit.


Attached Files
File Type: avi vhs test 01 - e65 tbc.avi (96.33 MB, 5 downloads)
File Type: avi vhs test 01 - no tbc.avi (95.97 MB, 5 downloads)
File Type: avi vhs test 01 - v10u tbc.avi (92.35 MB, 4 downloads)
Reply With Quote
The following users thank kooz for this useful post: msgohan (03-19-2017)
  #8  
02-14-2017, 08:41 AM
kooz kooz is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Shameless double-post so I can make good on my promise of another set of captures. This is from an original, direct from camera to VHS EP recording. It seems to be easy for the JVC to digest.

Fun extra bonus score: help me date the footage.
I was born in Q4 '82. How old would you say I was?


Attached Files
File Type: avi vhs test 02 - e65 tbc.avi (93.93 MB, 5 downloads)
File Type: avi vhs test 02 - no tbc.avi (89.18 MB, 6 downloads)
File Type: avi vhs test 02 - v10u tbc.avi (86.29 MB, 14 downloads)
Reply With Quote
The following users thank kooz for this useful post: msgohan (03-19-2017)
  #9  
03-19-2017, 09:22 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 888
Thanked 197 Times in 171 Posts
Thanks for the samples, dude.

Shouldn't you be able to guess your age better than we can? No photos from that time?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
03-21-2017, 10:51 AM
kooz kooz is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 13
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
Shouldn't you be able to guess your age better than we can?
Haha, yeah, you're probably right. It turns out there's footage of my 6th birthday two scenes further into the tape, so this clip is from October of 1988.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New capture setup, input on AVT-8710 captures? rf99 Capture, Record, Transfer 45 09-14-2016 03:21 PM
Test captures of VHS tapes with JVC HR-S9500 knumag Capture, Record, Transfer 17 07-20-2014 10:00 PM
Averaging multiple captures? (test samples included) juhok Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 39 12-09-2013 01:11 AM
Test Posts admin General Discussion 38 10-24-2010 08:54 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:43 AM