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02-23-2017, 12:07 PM
DigitalBasset DigitalBasset is offline
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Greetings,

I'm new to the forum but have been reading it for months as I prepare my own analog-to-digital VHS project. My goal is to transfer boxes of old family home videos (primarily VHS and VHS-C) to lossless digital for preservation into the future. I purchased a JVC VCR with TBC from the list on this site, but I've run into a crossroad with my capture device and I'd like some advice.

I have an old PC with an ATI AIW 7500, 1 GB RAM, and an AMD 2000+ processor (I have a spare 3000+ I can drop in). The system works, I've had it since it was new, but the issue is I have lost the Windows XP disc and the old drive won't boot so it needs a fresh install. The license key was with the install disk. So now I have the PC, but no copy of Windows to load. Here are the options as I see them:

#1 - Find an unused/unopened copy of Windows XP on eBay or Amazon and cross my fingers that it is legitimate with an unused legitimate key ($100-$130).
#2 - Find a used PC on eBay that comes loaded with Windows and an activation key that's valid and drop in my AIW ($100-$200)
#3 - Skip XP and get a VC500 USB capture card and use my modern Windows 10 tower to do the capturing ($35).

I'm having a really hard time finding any legitimate copies of Windows XP. I'm wondering if it is worth the trouble of trying to find and pay for Windows XP or if I should just use the Diamond VC500 on my modern computer and save the trouble and money. I've heard that the Diamond VC500 actually does a fairly good job in these forums. But I'm willing to keep searching for Windows XP if using an AIW makes a big difference for home movie capture.

Any advice would be appreciated!
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  #2  
02-23-2017, 03:07 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Your best bet to get into capturing would be with the VC500. They're known to produce quite decent results. As for which is "the best" compared with the 7500, there have been many threads and tests showing that each has its minor pros and cons but both are good performers.

You can likely find a full (non-upgrade) version of XP, more than likely with a reputable seller on eBay. But be advised, the cost for a full-fledged genuine product is practically the same as the original retail price for XP Pro. One problem is that you also need the original hardware and motherboard chipset drivers that came with your old PC. For example, the chipset apps contain drivers for USB and system optimizations that tailor your motherboard operations for XP. Finding a used PC has its own pitfalls, among them finding one with an AGP slot for your AIW. The best bets cost quite a bit for reliable and completely refurbished systems -- but they are around.

I'd advise getting started with the VC500 to get the hang of proper capture. I use a VC500 on my Win7 PC in addition to the home-built XP machines that have my AIW card, one of which is the 7500. Don't stop your search for a genuine XP disc but be aware of the supplemental hardware driver issues.
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02-23-2017, 05:47 PM
DigitalBasset DigitalBasset is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Your best bet to get into capturing would be with the VC500. They're known to produce quite decent results. As for which is "the best" compared with the 7500, there have been many threads and tests showing that each has its minor pros and cons but both are good performers.

You can likely find a full (non-upgrade) version of XP, more than likely with a reputable seller on eBay. But be advised, the cost for a full-fledged genuine product is practically the same as the original retail price for XP Pro. One problem is that you also need the original hardware and motherboard chipset drivers that came with your old PC. For example, the chipset apps contain drivers for USB and system optimizations that tailor your motherboard operations for XP. Finding a used PC has its own pitfalls, among them finding one with an AGP slot for your AIW. The best bets cost quite a bit for reliable and completely refurbished systems -- but they are around.

I'd advise getting started with the VC500 to get the hang of proper capture. I use a VC500 on my Win7 PC in addition to the home-built XP machines that have my AIW card, one of which is the 7500. Don't stop your search for a genuine XP disc but be aware of the supplemental hardware driver issues.
Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. I went ahead and ordered a VC500. Your advice plus other reviews I've seen on this site make me think it is one of the better USB capture options. I'll start searching eBay for an unopened/unused copy of Windows XP, and in the mean time keep looking for my copy of Windows XP that I'm holding out slight hope might still be found here at home.

Good warning about the drivers. I actually have a an extra AGP a-socket motherboard which still has the original driver disk, so if I can't find the drivers for my current motherboard and chipset I could at least swap boards.

Two final questions:
1. Any advice on what to keep an eye out for when looking for a legitimate copy of Windows XP?
2. Does the VC500 being sold today still have the decent chipset that people have had good luck with on these forums? I haven't heard of any changes to the VC500 lately, but wanted to double check to make sure.
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  #4  
02-23-2017, 08:17 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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An XP disc should be sold in its original unopened container, usually a flat cardboard-backed but sealed package, and often appears as a slim cardboard fold-out box (sealed). It should sell at least for more than $150. If you can find a Microsoft-certified service shop selling it, all the better (and the higher the price). If the seller states no returns, don't buy it.

The VC500 sells for about $38 at Amazon and ships brand new with the latest Conexant-Polaris chip. Like many USB devices it can't maintain good audio sync during Virtualdub capture if you keep audio preview turned on, but neither do most other USB devices. Even with the AIW, you can turn on audio preview during setup but you should turn it off during capture. You can tell if video is coming thru by turning on the Video meter which displays at the bottom of the capture window in Virtualdub. You must install the basic VC500 driver and EZGrabber for capture with Virtualdub. For other Virtualdub capture setup tips in more detail, consult the latest guide: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-settings.html.
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  #5  
02-24-2017, 10:32 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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At this point in time, given availability issues on this old OS software, I'm not opposed to folks acquiring it by unofficial means. Most people who take on DIY video projects have ideas in where to acquire it.

The VC500 is not my first go-to device. USB is not my first preference.

VirtualDub audio preview can cause issues, USB or not. PCI, AGP and PCIe cards will drop frames when it is enabled. That's one reason that secondary play channels are useful on the better audio cards (Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, some SoundBlaster, sometimes onboard Realtek), meaning that it also captures the audio.

I would fix the old system. Storage (hard drive type, size, number) would be my only concern.

Windows 10 does too much "stuff" in the background, being part of the new era of always-connected OS. It may also cause dropped frames and other oddities. Offline systems, stripped down of excess crap, work best for video.

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  #6  
02-24-2017, 12:56 PM
DigitalBasset DigitalBasset is offline
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Thanks for all the input. I'll keep searching for a copy of Windows XP. In the mean time I'll try doing a few basic transfers with the VC500 for my family and perhaps re-do them when I get XP.

One final question: should I be connecting the VCR with S-Video or composite? I've heard use composite for home movies but I'm not sure where I read that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
USB
Out of curiosity, do you have a preferred USB device of the ones available, or are they all equally problematic?
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  #7  
03-11-2017, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalBasset View Post
Out of curiosity, do you have a preferred USB device of the ones available, or are they all equally problematic?
The ATI 600 USB are by far the best of the USB cards for capturing VHS.

And I have some available at the moment:
- http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/mark...html#post48091
- http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/mark...html#post48211

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  #8  
03-11-2017, 08:11 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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[quote=DigitalBasset;47985]Thanks for all the input. I'll keep searching for a copy of Windows XP. In the mean time I'll try doing a few basic transfers with the VC500 for my family and perhaps re-do them when I get XP.

One final question: should I be connecting the VCR with S-Video or composite? I've heard use composite for home movies but I'm not sure where I read that.[quote=DigitalBasset;47985]I wouldn't know where you read that, either, but if I were you I'd stay away from wherever it was. S-video cable is preferred if you have s-video available -- at least that would be the most common usage. Some users maintain that the composite output on some players is cleaner than its s-video output. Unfortunately no one has mentioned model numbers or been able to demonstrate this claim, so I'd stick with s-video. It's easy enough to run a short capture with a player and compare results for yourself. Composite will give you more chroma noise and the dreaded dot crawl and edge buzz that's so difficult to clean up without destroying everything else.

Some people confuse "s-video" with "SVHS", which have nothing to do with each other. SVHS is a tape format that requires an SVHS player. S-video is a type of signal transmission and related circuitry and wiring, which can be used to relay signals from DVD, SVHS, VHS, VHS-C, analog webcams, cable boxes and receivers that have s-video connectivity. S-video circuitry doesn't have the bandwidth to carry HD material. Standard def only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalBasset View Post
Out of curiosity, do you have a preferred USB device of the ones available, or are they all equally problematic?
The Hauppauge, ATI 600, and VC500 mentioned are all competent workhorses. I prefer the VC500 because it doesn't clip super blacks (the other two will do it if you're not careful, and good luck detecting it), and it can be used with XP and everything later up to Windows 10. ATI seems to have a slight edge with some tech critics but you will have to work very hard to demonstrate the differences, most of which tend to blend after post-processing. When it comes to using the built-in capture software other than VirtualDub itself, ATI's MMC software clearly outpaces software from the other makers if you're going to capture to lossy codecs like MPEG.
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