Quantcast Capture software, OS drops frames in VirtualDub? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
03-10-2017, 03:53 PM
MAFLP MAFLP is offline
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Hi, I'm new to this forum so I'll try to do my best here. Since last week i've been getting problems with VirtualDub on my Windows 10 Machine. On Windows 10, VirtualDub keeps adding and dropping frames constantly, making my videos very freezed sometimes (not that much freezed but it's still frustrating). I knew that it was a problem with VDub but even changing the software it didn't help me. So I got my Old Windows XP HDD and putted it into my PC and installed VDub, it got back to normal BUT, after 15-20 minutes of recording with Lagarith Lossless Codec, it starts to lose sync. I really need to use a Lossless codec or uncompressed video since I use QTGMC to deinterlace my VHS videos. Can someone help me with those problems?

PC:
MB: Asus H81M Chipset
RAM: Kingston 8 Gb DDR3 1333
Processor: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2 GHz
Video Card: nVidia GeForce 9500 GT 1GB
OS: Windows 10 and Windows XP (Separate HDDs)
HDDs: Seagate 500Gb (Win10), Samsung 160Gb (WinXp), Western Digital My Passport 2 Tb (Storage)
Capture card: Honestech MY VIDBOX NW03
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  #2  
03-11-2017, 12:51 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Welcome to digitalfaq.

Thanks for the technical info bu you omitted a few important things.
Which version of Virtualdub?
What VCR are you using?
External TBC, if any?

I'm afraid the Honestch is a very poor choice, and doesn't help matters at all.

Have you seen the recent VirtualDub capture guide? The thread starts here: Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide]. In particular, capture timing and frame sync issues are discussed in section #5, titled 5: Capture (top menu).

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Originally Posted by MAFLP View Post
I really need to use a Lossless codec or uncompressed video since I use QTGMC to deinterlace my VHS videos.
There are a great many very good reasons for using lossless media, but deinterlacing isn't one of the major ones. Why are you deinterlacing interlaced video sources? Is it for web posting? What is your final output goal for your video captures, other than internet posting? What was the nature or content of your captured videos (not all VHS videos are interlaced).

For YUY2 capture-time compression you might try a slightly faster compressor (huffyuv), as Lagarith is a tad on the side of higher CPU usage with some system setups. I use huffyuv for YUY2 capture, but I use Lagarith for post-processing. Lagarith capture is a bit slower on my ancient AMD capture PC but it excels over huffyuv for post work and can compress YV12, which huffyuv can't compress.

Last edited by sanlyn; 03-11-2017 at 01:09 AM.
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03-11-2017, 02:42 AM
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A lack of TBC is likely causing all the dropped frames issues. That's all it is.

VirtualDub settings are unlikely.
The Honestechh capture cards are junk, but still unlikely at fault.

VHS signals are dirty chaos, and a TBC fixes that.

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03-11-2017, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Welcome to digitalfaq.

Thanks for the technical info bu you omitted a few important things.
Which version of Virtualdub?
What VCR are you using?
External TBC, if any?

I'm afraid the Honestch is a very poor choice, and doesn't help matters at all.

Have you seen the recent VirtualDub capture guide? The thread starts here: Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide]. In particular, capture timing and frame sync issues are discussed in section #5, titled 5: Capture (top menu).

There are a great many very good reasons for using lossless media, but deinterlacing isn't one of the major ones. Why are you deinterlacing interlaced video sources? Is it for web posting? What is your final output goal for your video captures, other than internet posting? What was the nature or content of your captured videos (not all VHS videos are interlaced).

For YUY2 capture-time compression you might try a slightly faster compressor (huffyuv), as Lagarith is a tad on the side of higher CPU usage with some system setups. I use huffyuv for YUY2 capture, but I use Lagarith for post-processing. Lagarith capture is a bit slower on my ancient AMD capture PC but it excels over huffyuv for post work and can compress YV12, which huffyuv can't compress.
VirtualDub 1.10 64 bit (Win10) and 32-bit (XP).
I live in Brazil so we use PAL-M (525 lines 60hz PAL color Signal) and the VCR is a Gradiente but it's just a rebadged JVC 7 head Hi-Fi VCR. No TBC because it's hard to find a cheap/old TBC with both NTSC and PAL-M Signal sine I need to both.
The Capture card was a gift from my uncle who didn't know that it was a Capture Card.
I deinterlace my videos with QTGMC because it Deinterlaces properly and it makes the source 60fps for home recordings. Watch this video and you'll know the result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzlcoWWdHoA
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03-11-2017, 05:04 PM
MAFLP MAFLP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
A lack of TBC is likely causing all the dropped frames issues. That's all it is.

VirtualDub settings are unlikely.
The Honestechh capture cards are junk, but still unlikely at fault.

VHS signals are dirty chaos, and a TBC fixes that.
There's another problem for that, I need a multisystem TBC (NTSC and PAL-M) that is cheap and works since I have 4 Hours of camcorder recordings in PAL-M and the rest is NTSC. Maybe a miniDV camcorder would help me with the NTSC but I still need those 4 hours. I use a 7 head VCR and there's no noise on the picture and damaged portions appear as distortion rather than noise.
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03-11-2017, 05:52 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAFLP View Post
VirtualDub 1.10 64 bit (Win10) and 32-bit (XP).
Staff at digitalfaq says v1.10x of Virtualdub is buggy, and I agree. VirtualDub 1.9.11 can be downlaoded here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/vir...1.zip/download. To uninstall v10x, go into ControlPanel or the VirtualDuib program folder and uninstall. Your plugins folder will remain untouched. Then just unzip v1.9.11 and run VirtualDub.exe to install. Be careful about copying .vdf filters from your old install -- not every .vdf is compatible with v.1.9.11.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAFLP View Post
I live in Brazil so we use PAL-M (525 lines 60hz PAL color Signal) and the VCR is a Gradiente but it's just a rebadged JVC 7 head Hi-Fi VCR. No TBC because it's hard to find a cheap/old TBC with both NTSC and PAL-M Signal sine I need to both.
You can modify the VirtualDub capture settings according to the recent guide that was linked earlier and resetting the timing options. That will make some improvement, but it will not replace a frame-sync TBC if you need one for bad tapes or faulty playback. There are some DVD recorders that can be used as tbc pass-thru units to make use their frame sync circuitry. These machines tend to be format specific, but used ones are cheaper than multiple frame tbc's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAFLP View Post
The Capture card was a gift from my uncle who didn't know that it was a Capture Card.
I deinterlace my videos with QTGMC because it Deinterlaces properly and it makes the source 60fps for home recordings. Watch this video and you'll know the result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzlcoWWdHoA
I'm sorry to hear that you think you have a good capture card, but so be it. I did look at your Youtube video, and perhaps you ought to download it and look at it yourself. It has choppy, juddery motion because someone has discarded alternate frames (throwing away 50% of motion resolution and 50% of spatial defintion) and has really annoying aliasing and line twitter. I find it ironic to complain about dropped frames when 50% of interlaced resolution gets discarded anyway, with strong artifacts. Deinterlaicing is not valid for DVD or SD-BluRay/AVCHD if you want to go into those formats. You're stuck with computer or media player playback whether you want it or not, unless you still have your original interlaced captures.

Last edited by sanlyn; 03-11-2017 at 06:30 PM.
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03-11-2017, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Staff at digitalfaq says v1.10x of Virtualdub is buggy, and I agree. VirtualDub 1.9.11 can be downlaoded here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/vir...1.zip/download. To uninstall v10x, go into ControlPanel or the VirtualDuib program folder and uninstall. Your plugins folder will remain untouched. Then just unzip v1.9.11 and run VirtualDub.exe to install. Be careful about copying .vdf filters from your old install -- not every .vdf is compatible with v.1.9.11.

You can modify the VirtualDub capture settings according to the recent guide that was linked earlier and resetting the timing options. That will make some improvement, but it will not replace a frame-sync TBC if you need one for bad tapes or faulty playback. There are some DVD recorders that can be used as tbc pass-thru units to make use their frame sync circuitry. These machines tend to be format specific, but used ones are cheaper than multiple frame tbc's.

I'm sorry to hear that you think you have a good capture card, but so be it. I did look at your Youtube video, and perhaps you ought to download it and look at it yourself. It has choppy, juddery motion because you have discarded alternate frames (throwing away 50% of motion resolution and 50% of spatial defintiion) and has really annoying aliasing and line twitter. I find it ironic that you're complaining about dropped frames when you throw way 50% of your frames anyway. Deinterlaicing is not valid for DVD or SD-BluRay/AVCHD if you want to go into those formats. You're stuck with computer or media player playback whether you want it or not.
You got it wrong. My uncle only gave because he wouldn't use it and TBH i don't like to use it a lot but i'm not rich to pay hundreds of dollars (or thousands of royals) to get a good VCR, TBC, capture card and system. By the way, i did rewatch the video and the quality is sort of like you said, but, when i use my footage to deinterlace, it looks fantastic for a good VCR quality. I actually forgot that I had posted 2 Brazilian VHS openings in 60fps but i had to upscale to 720p60 for youtube show the framerate so the video isn't the sharpest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYNU0-4XCBA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQD_2ukk6vc. The problem is with windows 10 and the capture card, they have some conflicts because I installed Vista on my XP HDD and it didn't lose sync but it gave trouble to the file system.
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03-11-2017, 06:38 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I understand the cost factor (a USB capture card for Win10 such as a VC500 multiformat card costs less than $30 USD), buit one does what one can with what's available. If you try some of the suggested timing option settings in VirtualDub as suggested in the settings thread you might see a sync improvement and fewer frame drops/insertions.

The UTube videos that you linked to are not interlaced sources. They're telecined movie sources, which should be inverse telecined, not deinterlaced.

I don't understand the 720p/60 notation. YouTube will mount 60fps video but not as anamorphic video, so you or they must also have resized it to 720x540 for 4:3 square pixel or 720x400 for square pixel 16:9, or some other square pixel frame size.

Last edited by sanlyn; 03-11-2017 at 06:51 PM.
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03-11-2017, 06:48 PM
MAFLP MAFLP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
I understand the cost factor (a USB capture card for Win10 such as a VC500 multiformat card costs less than $30 USD), buit one does what one can with what's available. If you try some of the suggested timing option settings in VirtualDub as suggested in the settings thread you might see a sync improvement and fewer frame drops/insertions.

The UTube videos that you linked to are not interlaced sources. They're telecined movie sources, which should be inverse telecined, not deinterlaced.
The 1997 tape had both telecined movies, cartoons and a videotaped program called Castelo Ra Tim Bum (at around 3:48 in the video). That program was interlaced, was mastered interlaced and got deintelaced by me. Take a look at that.

But my focus isn't movies or TV shows. My focus is on home recordings from camcorders.
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  #10  
03-11-2017, 07:24 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The movie tapes show elements of field-blend deinterlacing, but I'm not sure who would be responsible for that. If you have "interlaced" issues of movie film, you must have some oddball tape editions, but that's not unusual. The only home video I think we've seen sampled so far is your YouTube link, and that one is badly deinterlaced with many resizing artifacts, so it's about par for the typical YouTube video. Where the aliasing and twitter come from can only be explained by poor deinterlace, as upscaling progressive video won't produce those effects. So far, the last two links don't show any of the dropped/inserted frames or freezing you mentioned, just mainly no post-processing at home and a lot of typically bad website processing.

The 1280x720p videos are invalid for BluRay but par for square-pixel web video with side pillars added and half the frames thrown away to get 29.97 fps. This is OK for web video, which doesn't display or re-encode very well to begin with and is a low quality standard by necessity, but it doesn't do anything for viewing home videos at home on TV.

Last edited by sanlyn; 03-11-2017 at 07:52 PM.
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  #11  
03-12-2017, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Staff at digitalfaq says v1.10x of Virtualdub is buggy, and I agree. VirtualDub 1.9.11 can be downlaoded here:
Or here: VirtualDub with Filters Pre-loaded + HuffYUV [DOWNLOADS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAFLP View Post
i'm not rich to pay hundreds of dollars (or thousands of royals) to get a good VCR, TBC, capture card and system.
I wouldn't consider myself rich, either.
But TBC is almost impossible to avoid. So my advice is always: buy it, use it, resell it. A good TBC will hold its value.

Quote:
I see a lot of timing wiggles/jitter, chroma playback errors, whole-frame dropouts, tracking bouncing. Passable quality, but better can be had. When you watch it on a large HDTV, those errors become obvious and annoying. View small, it's ignorable. The deinterlace looks like Yadif. That's the 2nd-base method. Yadif still has some aliasing, though it's not noticeable on all videos.

The capture card is not as big an issue as the VCR here.

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  #12  
03-19-2017, 10:09 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Panasonic released some of their "good for passthrough" DVD recorders in Brazil with PAL-M support. A Brazilian guy on VideoHelp picked up a DMR-ES10 and I think he provided samples, if you feel like searching up the thread.
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