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  #1  
03-21-2017, 10:13 AM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Hello,

Can anyone recommend HDMI capture card, preferably USB that can work with VirtualDub on XP and record in standard 480i resolution bypassing hardware compression. Thanks.

--Leonid
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  #2  
03-21-2017, 04:38 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Don't know of a USB one that also works in WinXP that I would recommend. Why XP?

Internal: AVerMedia C027.
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  #3  
03-21-2017, 06:21 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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I put my eye on a few.

Here they are:

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...nal~USB2HDCAPM
This one is USB 2.0. Looks like it doesn't do internal compression. Claimed to be working with 480i.

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...nent~USB2HDCAP

This one is said to have built-in H.264 and MPEG-4 hardware encoder and it scares me. Can I bypass it when working with VirtualDub? It's discontinued and is replaced with the following:

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...ice~USB2HDCAPS

This seems to be stand alone and I want it to go to PC.

https://www.startech.com/AV/Converte...-vga~USB3HDCAP

This one is USB 3.0.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr2.html

This one seems to be enforcing hardware encoding... So no.... I keep on looking...
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  #4  
03-21-2017, 07:27 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Any USB 2.0 device that advertises 1080p support must be doing hardware encoding. USB 2.0 is barely enough to transmit uncompressed SD 4:2:2.

You should take a look at my HDMI comparison thread on VideoHelp, as I found that even uncompressed devices don't all transmit the signal faithfully.
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  #5  
03-21-2017, 07:39 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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So if VirtualDub can't see the HDMI device, does it mean it has hardware compressor inside which is not bypassable?

Where is the thread?
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  #6  
03-22-2017, 01:34 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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In theory, some devices could be bypassed using Preview pin in GraphEdit while VDub can't see them but this would be rare. It doesn't apply in the case of USB 2.0 HDMI cap devices.

For me it's the first Google result for "hdmi screenshot comparison" but that may be because of Google tracking me. Add vaporeon800 or do a search on VH for all threads by that ID. I'm not able to link it right now.
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  #7  
03-22-2017, 01:37 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...on-screenshots
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  #8  
03-22-2017, 03:20 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Thank you. So I guess USB3HDCAP is not a true HDMI capture.

From the list I have to go with either Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro 4K or AVerMedia C027. Just don't have PCIe slots anymore. Or need to remove my ATI TV Wonder Theatre 750.

However, I want to still try to buy USB2HDCAPM stick and see if it's just a pure pass-through. Or, I can look into Matrox but then I need to go to Mac and that's the last thing that I want.

Thank you.

--Leonid
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  #9  
03-23-2017, 10:24 AM
jbd5010 jbd5010 is offline
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Leonid, please be sure to let us know what you end up with... I don't need a USB device in particular, but I would like to do uncompressed HDMI captures from an ADV7842 evaluation board for Laserdisc purposes. Thanks!
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  #10  
03-23-2017, 03:24 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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The Avermedia C027 works fine for HDMI capture. The USB3HDCAP (and its Micomsoft X-Capture cousin) has well documented problems with drivers. Apparently the OEM who makes the capture chips (Yuan Tech) can't seem to release bug free drivers.

Any USB HDMI capture device is going to require USB 3.0 for uncompressed capture. If your budget is higher, the frame grabber market has a few devices that do HDMI capture well, like the Epiphan DVI2USB 3.0 and their DVI2PCIe internal cards:

https://www.epiphan.com/products/dvi...-0/tech-specs/

I have a DVI2PCIe card, they can be occasionally found on ebay for a fraction of the $1299 MSRP if you are patient. Just make sure you are getting the correct card as some jerk is trying to pass off Vidyo branded cards with no drivers as an Epiphan product.
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  #11  
03-23-2017, 09:07 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbd5010 View Post
Leonid, please be sure to let us know what you end up with... I don't need a USB device in particular, but I would like to do uncompressed HDMI captures from an ADV7842 evaluation board for Laserdisc purposes. Thanks!

Welcome to the club. I ordered ADV7842 evaluation board, but I think I might be out of luck. Analog.com (manufacturers) came back to me and telling me that in order to get HDMI board, one needs to be an HDMI adopter. On top of that if you have HDCP, you need to get an additional license. So I did order the board from Mauser.com. It's on the back order. Whether they will deliver or cancel the order, I don't know.

PS. Are you in Philly?
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  #12  
03-23-2017, 09:09 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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NJRoadfan,

What about USB 2.0 cards for the standard old school 720x480 interlaced lossless 4:2:2 capture? Cause this is what I am planning to output from LaserDiscs. Is it doable?
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03-23-2017, 09:10 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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If this card has Composite in, then I guess, I won't need separate HDMI card. Cause it has this ADV7842 board.
http://www.magewell.com/pro-capture-hdmi
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...D&A=details&Q=
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  #14  
03-23-2017, 09:20 PM
jbd5010 jbd5010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
Welcome to the club. I ordered ADV7842 evaluation board, but I think I might be out of luck. Analog.com (manufacturers) came back to me and telling me that in order to get HDMI board, one needs to be an HDMI adopter. On top of that if you have HDCP, you need to get an additional license. So I did order the board from Mauser.com. It's on the back order. Whether they will deliver or cancel the order, I don't know.

PS. Are you in Philly?
So, the part number EVAL-ADV7842-7511P with the "P" on the end indicates the NON-HDCP version of the card, available to whomever wants to buy it. The model number lacking the "P" suffix is the HDCP-keyed version that you have to be licensed for. Analog didn't mention anything about HDMI licensing though... they just said I had to buy through distribution because I didn't have an account with them.

I also ordered off of Mouser, it said "estimated ship date 3/24/17" and then on my order confirmation email it actually said "1 in stock." It said "1 on order" on the website though ... I guess we'll see. I ordered this morning. When did you place your order?

And yes, I'm in Philly... well, almost. Lansdale, about 30 miles northwest of Center City. Are you in the area?
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  #15  
03-23-2017, 09:23 PM
jbd5010 jbd5010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
If this card has Composite in, then I guess, I won't need separate HDMI card. Cause it has this ADV7842 board.
http://www.magewell.com/pro-capture-hdmi
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...D&A=details&Q=
Yeah, msgohan also mentioned that today in this thread - Extron YCS 100 comb filter ... and TBC?!

I wish I knew about it before I placed an order for this eval board.
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  #16  
03-23-2017, 09:40 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Well, msgohan said that you can't tweak ADV7842 if it's inside the capture card. So go figure.

I placed the order yesterday. I spoke to them also yesterday and the day before yesterday. The day before yesterday the person I spoke to was very aggressive. When I told him that he was wrong because a couple of people did get the board, he was aggressively asking me where and when. This requirement came less than a month ago.

By the way, you don't need TBC for LaserDiscs. Each player has built in TBC.

I also wanted to say that I have made 12 LD captures of the same thing using various equipment and LD players during the last couple of years. Maybe anyone is interested to see 1 second of the same sample of all 12 of them just to compare? Equipment included ATI Theater 750 PCIe and USB, OneTouch VC500, Panasonic DMR-ES25, Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle, cheap Conexant based USB stick a-la VC500 but with component inputs, Compro VideoMate, AIW7500 and players LD-S2 and CLD-D703.

From my observation I tend to think that what is doing well on the Snell & Wilcox test pattern is not necessary superior in real life footage. I found that S-Video connection to OneTouch VC500 gave slightly better results.

PS. I am in Fort Lee.
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  #17  
03-23-2017, 11:11 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Regarding 3D comb filter on real footage: I assume you've seen this?

http://notonbluray.com/blog/comb-tb-tests/

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
What about USB 2.0 cards for the standard old school 720x480 interlaced lossless 4:2:2 capture?
Thing is, no one makes an HDMI capture device aimed only at 480i capture. Even uncompressed 480p60 is well above USB 2.0 limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
msgohan said that you can't tweak ADV7842 if it's inside the capture card.
Presumably. It's possible that hidden registry settings, Linux driver settings ("source code under NDA"), and/or developer software could allow access to those registers. But at least with the eval board, AntcuFaalb can provide some pointers whenever he is around. With the capture card, you're completely on your own unless Magewell support helps out.
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  #18  
03-24-2017, 06:12 AM
jbd5010 jbd5010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
Well, msgohan said that you can't tweak ADV7842 if it's inside the capture card. So go figure.
Well, hopefully this Mouser order doesn't sit in "backordered" purgatory, haha.

Quote:
I placed the order yesterday. I spoke to them also yesterday and the day before yesterday. The day before yesterday the person I spoke to was very aggressive. When I told him that he was wrong because a couple of people did get the board, he was aggressively asking me where and when. This requirement came less than a month ago.
Maybe he was confused about the HDCP and non-HDCP versions? Sounds like great customer service...

Quote:
By the way, you don't need TBC for LaserDiscs. Each player has built in TBC.
Understood, my interest in the TBC portion is just out of curiosity more than anything. Mainly interested in the comb filter. (My VHS home movies have been captured already... Although I still have all my gear.)

Quote:
I also wanted to say that I have made 12 LD captures of the same thing using various equipment and LD players during the last couple of years. Maybe anyone is interested to see 1 second of the same sample of all 12 of them just to compare? Equipment included ATI Theater 750 PCIe and USB, OneTouch VC500, Panasonic DMR-ES25, Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle, cheap Conexant based USB stick a-la VC500 but with component inputs, Compro VideoMate, AIW7500 and players LD-S2 and CLD-D703.

From my observation I tend to think that what is doing well on the Snell & Wilcox test pattern is not necessary superior in real life footage. I found that S-Video connection to OneTouch VC500 gave slightly better results.
Interesting that S-Video worked best instead of composite, regardless of capture card. I assume it was the LD-S2 giving that result?
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  #19  
03-24-2017, 06:22 AM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Not necessarily LD-S2. I captured with CLD-D703 using ATI TV Wonder PCIe version for composite and USB version for S-Video. I didn't notice difference. It's just that CLD-D703 produces grainer output compared to LD-S2 in both cases.
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  #20  
03-24-2017, 06:41 AM
jbd5010 jbd5010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
Regarding 3D comb filter on real footage: I assume you've seen this?

http://notonbluray.com/blog/comb-tb-tests/
So, I don't have the TBS-185, but I do have the NRS30 by Snell and Wilcox. It's about the same vintage as the TBS-185. Some old discussion in a VHS context here:
Snell & Wilcox TBS24 for VHS to digital transfers ?

I tried the comb filter on it, and it seemed to be on par with the DMRES10, except it didn't mess up black levels or introduce MPEG-2 artifacts in the process like the Panasonic did. I need to do some further testing...
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