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  #21  
04-18-2017, 08:52 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
Definitely not. Take a look at these 2 images. Look at Chroma on CLD-D703 using ATI HD 750 and on LD-S2 using DMR-ES25.
Very interesting indeed, thanks. I share Sanlyn's concern regarding the different workflows, but I assume you just uploaded clips that you had on hand.

Quote:
Now, I started to understand what Y / C delay is.
Y/C delay is just an offset. Previously when you asked about it, I thought you knew this and you were just asking whether I could detect it in the image you sent.

This article provides frame numbers of the Video Essentials LD for a specific "delay" pattern. This and this have a couple photos.

BTW, some comb filter tests from Fudoh that I found while searching for Y/C delay images.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
I often wonder why anyone would be using the ES25 anyway, I've never seen anyone recommend it for pass-thru. It's not equal to the ES10 or ES15 in correction power and all three ES's have a different look to them. But that's another story.
I own an ES15 & ES25, and used to own another ES15. I've tested them a lot. I haven't found any signal that I would say the ES15 decodes better than the ES25. I don't agree that they have a different "look" at all; the actual image quality seems identical when fed stable video.

It's tough to say they're identical with VHS sources, but I couldn't say any of the three was superior to one another except that the ES25 has the advantage of HDMI output, allowing me to bypass one D-A step. Getting way into the nitty-gritty, the two ES15s didn't even perform identically when fed simultaneous output from one playback of a tape. I sold the 2nd ES15 before my most recent test with truly horrible material, but ES25 vs ES15 simultaneous output didn't point to a winner. They each fail on different frames. Playing the tape again to the ES25 showed failure on yet different frames. No consistency.

I thought you owned 15s and a 20 but not a 25?
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  #22  
04-18-2017, 09:14 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I used to have an ES20. Kept it as long as I could for its LSi chip and direct-to-DVD recordings with pristine VHS issues. But those few tapes were finished and discarded, so what was left were the poorly tracking and damaged tapes that the ES20's weaker tbc couldn't handle. The ES10 and ES15 had more effective tbc's in my experience and a better y/c comb filter. Eventually the ES20 developed aging problems, so it's no longer here. Then the ES15 went on the blitz, so I'm staying with my two ES10's when needed. My experience with the ES25 and other Pannies for pass-thru is from other posts.

When I don't need the more powerful tbc and don't have my AG-1980 in use because it misbehaves with some tape or other (that AG can be a cranky dude sometimes), but want more transparency in a pass-thru, I use my Toshiba RD-XS34. I saved my worst tapes for last. And thank heaven they're almost all completed!
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  #23  
04-18-2017, 09:14 AM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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I will redo the test with both players using the exact same capture equipment in a couple of days. Although it will not change chroma. Thank you gentlemen. More later.
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  #24  
04-18-2017, 09:45 AM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Brad, I'm quoting the very first article that you provided:

"TV manufactures are always promoting the latest technology, naturally. Reading through the literature, you will probably notice that most new TVs this year are sporting 3D-Motion adaptive comb filters (comb filters separate the luminance "Y" from the chroma "C"). While these look fantastic on "static" images, when its time for motion, they must resort back to 2D processing. The logic that must decide when to switch from 3D to 2D is far from perfect, and often exhibits errors. A good example of the kind of errors I am talking about can be found on A Video Standard at the beginning of the disc. This is a color bar pattern with one bar that is changing colors. With a 3D filter, the bar exhibits a checkerboard-like pattern. The fact is that these 3D filters spend more time doing 2D work, and this is their weak point. Since your TV is spending more time in the 2D world, you want the BEST 2D filter you can get."

I'll leave it at here. So this is what I might incline to do. Just get DPS-575 to fix the delay and record with S-Video directly and forget about the rest (3D etc)....
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  #25  
04-18-2017, 10:48 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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It's true that those are the weaknesses of 3D comb filters, and you definitely want the 2D part of your 3D filter to be the best that there is. But realize that this specific article was written 20 years ago, before modern flatscreens brought a push for better digital filters for composite. The phrase "this is their weak point" was referring to the shiny new 3D!!!! Comb Filters! in that model year of TVs, not an inherent property of all 3D filters.
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  #26  
04-19-2017, 07:01 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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There you go. LD-S2 Composite output #1 (BNC) to ATI HD 750. As I previously mentioned the chroma resolution didn't get higher.


Attached Images
File Type: png LD-S2.PNG (573.8 KB, 12 downloads)
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  #27  
04-19-2017, 07:15 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Are you sure "chroma resolution" is what you mean? What's the resolution of the higher chroma and the resolution of the lower one? Aren't they all 4:2:2?
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  #28  
04-19-2017, 07:19 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Am I using a wrong terminology? If you look at 1.5 square, you will not see cyan color filled between the bars on LD-S2 image. But you will see cyan color on CLD-D703. So what is the right term?
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  #29  
04-19-2017, 08:56 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Chroma bandwidth/resolution, I think both are fine.
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