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  #1  
06-07-2017, 10:53 PM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Good morning everyone,

I should explain that the DVD's were all converted from VHS tapes (Pal) around 10 years ago using one of those combo machines. After reading a few posts in this forum if I still had the tapes I would do it differently.

Anyhow I will go with what I have. I am looking for a program that is as automated as possible. Does any program recognise common video errors and correct them during the conversion?

Some of them need to be cropped. They are all 720x576 which I believe happened during the original conversion. I would like to be able to split some of them as well. From what we understand they would benefit from deinterlacing as well?

Should I just keep them at the 720x576 resolution - from what I understand if I keep them at this resolution and then for example crop a large black line from the bottom that the resolution will change slightly. Is this ok?

I guess that is it. Neither of us have done anything like this before but we can follow written instructions.

The computer that will be used is a 4th Gen Core i7 with 8Gb of ram and a 512Mb discrete (though not overly powerful) Nvidia GeForce 9600Gt.

Thanks in advance,

Paul and Casey

-- merged --

Ok so far what I did was use the Lord Smurfs Virtualdub to open the main .Vob file and then save it as AVI so that it is uncompressed.

Is that ok? A 17 minute DVD is now a file over 30Gb. I do have a 2Tb portable so size doesn't matter (despite what my wife says).

I can then select the start point and end point I want and then save again that selection.

I won't go any further here as I don't want to go too far down the wrong path.

It still doesn't look like a brand new Bluray movie yet :-)
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  #2  
06-08-2017, 11:09 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Why mp4? There's nothing magic about it, and changing the container from VOB/MPEG to MP4 makes no quality improvement whatsoever. If you want MPG playback from a USB stick or drive, reassemble the VOB's into an MPG with free VOB2MPG. MPG can play anywhere. If you don't have an external player that can play MPG from a stick or drive, get a better player. Free automated converters re-encode, which butchers quality and adds more compression noise. The results are even more difficult to edit and improve than lossy MPG. Any visit to the awful videos on YouTube will demonstrate quickly that mp4 is no cure.

MP4 was specifically developed for progressive video and internet streaming. But you can still have a 720x476 interlaced or progressive MP4 that plays at 4:3 display aspect ratio if set up that way in the encoder. Foe web use, you wouild have to deintyerlace and resize to square pixels. There are many resizers, most of them only so-so, some downright awful, and resizing always hurts if not done correctly. There should be no need to resize for USB/drive playback of MPG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
Does any program recognise common video errors and correct them during the conversion?
No. If you used a combo unit to make the recordings, you have a low quality encode to start with and your work is ahead of you. DVD/VHS combos have terrible tape players. If you didn't use the highest available bitrate, you took another quality hit. But never fear: something can always be done.

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Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
Some of them need to be cropped. They are all 720x576 which I believe happened during the original conversion.
720x576 @25fps anamorphic is DVD spec for PAL. Why cropped? You mean resized? Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
From what we understand they would benefit from deinterlacing as well?
No benefit at all, except for web mounting or something like iPhone play. Most deinterlacers are freaky bad, and even good ones will cost quality unless you know what you're doing. The premium deinterlacer is QTGMC, which requires Avisynth. The result will be 50fps double frame rate progressive. If any of your tapes are telecined TV shows, they can't be deinterlaced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
Should I just keep them at the 720x576 resolution - from what I understand if I keep them at this resolution and then for example crop a large black line from the bottom that the resolution will change slightly. Is this ok?
Not OK. Bottom border head switching noise is usually cropped in Avisynth and, without resizing the video, new borders are added to complete the frame. Or you can use masking in VirtualDub. Changing the image proportions will affect the aspect ratio. And you have to be careful about cropping YV12 interlaced video, which can screw up chroma channels if not done correctly.

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Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
Ok so far what I did was use the Lord Smurfs Virtualdub to open the main .Vob file and then save it as AVI so that it is uncompressed.

Is that ok? A 17 minute DVD is now a file over 30Gb.
Again, that's not the way it's done. If you have a huge file from VirtualDub, you made two newby mistakes. VirtualDub is not friendly with YV12 interlaced video, which is what your DVD is. And you converted it by default to uncompressed RGB, which screws up the unadjusted luma and chroma levels that undoubtedly resulted from recording with a combo unit with no level controls. You should have saved the output by compressing with a loossless codec such as Lagarith for YV12, which would be a fraction of the size of uncompressed RGB and leaves originals levels intact.

The primary means for converting MPG video to working files is the free DGindex utility, which is used with Avisynth to produce a lossleslly compressed YV12 video from MPG. If you want to submit a sample for learning a great deal more (and not that difficult), consult this thread for creating MPG samples for posting to this forum: How to upload a sample from DVD, MPEG-2 with DGindex [GUIDE]. Pretty much the same method is used to create lossless working files from MPG.

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Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
It still doesn't look like a brand new Bluray movie yet
The type of MPG/MP4 conversion you mention would be worse. But it can probably be improved greatly with some effort. If you want, submit a short sample and let's see what can be done.


There's always Freemake Video Converter, which isn't exactly free, but you won't like the results. And you can't make BluRay from MP4.
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  #3  
06-08-2017, 11:19 AM
koberulz koberulz is offline
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Anything from a VHS source will never look anything like a Blu-Ray, even under the best possible digitisation/restoration process, which this isn't.
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  #4  
06-08-2017, 11:52 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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No one can advise in detail without a sample. No, it won't look like an original BluRay. The idea is not to purposely make it worse. How much improvement made be made depends on the material.
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  #5  
06-08-2017, 10:40 PM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Hi Sanlyn,

Thanks for your suggestions.

The reason I wanted to convert the vob file to mp4 is because I thought that was the file format of choice. If you google “DVD to” the first suggestion that pops up is mp4. However mpg is fine if that is the preferred method.

I couldn’t get VOB2MPG to work in my Windows 10 which is 64Bit if that matters. So I used a program called DVDVob2mpg. Is that ok?

From their Website “DVDVob2Mpg fixes the MPEG stream and converts your VOB/VRO files to MPG files with ease. DVDVob2Mpg is very fast and causes no loss of quality! It does not re-encode the video and audio like so many other applications do. Instead it re-multiplexes the existing video and audio while it fixes the MPEG program stream and headers, it calculates and applies correct timing, throws away bad video frames and nonsense data. At the end everything is puzzled back together to come to a very clean MPG file, per the MPEG standard. MPG files created with DVDVob2Mpg will play beautifully using Windows media player, and they will import with ease in all Video DVD authoring applications or Video Editing software”.

Using this program the mpg file produced is 847Mb. A lot better than the 30Gb

You can find a short sample attached to this post. The link ending in sample.html. didn't work. I wasn't sure if it was a link which explained how to create a sample or how to post a sample. So I used Avidemux specifying MPEG PS A+V and made sure it was under 99Mb.

This will let you see what I mean about cropping the bottom to get rid of the black bar and also how I would like to remove the first part of it so it starts with the swimming. At the end of the 17 minute DVD is some Bananas in Pyjamas footage I would like removed as well. Is that easy enough to do? Which program would you recommend I use?

Are there any other things I can do to improve the quality of the video? They were all dubbed using the same machine and most are the same quality as the attached.

I know these old recordings will never be like Blu-ray. That was a joke on my part - I am not very funny

I am happy to try Avidemux for editing. It 'seems' easier than Virtualdub.


Attached Files
File Type: mpg VTS_01_1.VOB_edit.mpg (42.17 MB, 7 downloads)
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  #6  
06-09-2017, 03:06 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
I couldn’t get VOB2MPG to work in my Windows 10 which is 64Bit if that matters. So I used a program called DVDVob2mpg. Is that ok?
DVDVOB2MPG is similar to VOB2MPG.

Most of the software recommended here for video restoration and repair is 32-bit. For the free Avisynth and VirtualkDub programs there are more than 400 free filters and plugins, all of them 32-bit. There is nothing wrong with running 32-bit apps that work in 64-bit systems. 64-bit has to do with memory length access, not with running speed.

Sorry, guys, if anyone posts a link that doesn't work, just let us know. Here is the corrected link: How to upload a sample from DVD, MPEG-2 with DGindex [GUIDE]. The original posted link didn't work because the last letter in the link (the "L" in "HTML") somehow became disconnected as part of the link. The original post appeared less than a week ago.

AviDemux edits only on key frames, so it isn't possible to edit MPEG without re-encoding if you want specific frame cuts. Please note that there is no way to crop a lossy encoded image without re-encoding the video. MPEG is not a lossless codec. MPG, MP4, BluRay, and AVCHD are final delivery formats not designed for edits without re-encoding.

Will take a look at the sample and report back.
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  #7  
06-09-2017, 05:19 AM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
DVDVOB2MPG is similar to VOB2MPG.

Most of the software recommended here for video restoration and repair is 32-bit. For the free Avisynth and VirtualkDub programs there are more than 400 free filters and plugins, all of them 32-bit. There is nothing wrong with running 32-bit apps that work in 64-bit systems. 64-bit has to do with memory length access, not with running speed.

Sorry, guys, if anyone posts a link that doesn't work, just let us know. Here is the corrected link: How to upload a sample from DVD, MPEG-2 with DGindex [GUIDE]. The original posted link didn't work because the last letter in the link (the "L" in "HTML") somehow became disconnected as part of the link. The original post appeared less than a week ago.

AviDemux edits only on key frames, so it isn't possible to edit MPEG without re-encoding if you want specific frame cuts. Please note that there is no way to crop a lossy encoded image without re-encoding the video. MPEG is not a lossless codec. MPG, MP4, BluRay, and AVCHD are final delivery formats not designed for edits without re-encoding.

Will take a look at the sample and report back.
Hi Sanlyn and thank you for all your help.

One thing I would also like to do with longer dvds is join some video files together e.g. what was originally the Vob 1 and perhaps the first part of Vob 2 etc.

But that is a different story so I will await your advice on editing mpg files (choosing start and finish plus anything else) first.

These are all Caseys VHS conversions. I'm glad I was lazy and didn't copy what she did 10 years ago Since I found this site I will hold off on converting my VHS tapes (around 100) until I can afford a proper JVC Pal VHS Recorder, TBC and Capture Card. I already have a decent XP desktop with AGP.

Thanks again,

Paul
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  #8  
06-09-2017, 02:38 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
One thing I would also like to do with longer dvds is join some video files together e.g. what was originally the Vob 1 and perhaps the first part of Vob 2 etc.
DVDVOB2MPG should be able to concatenate and copy all the VOB's into a single MPG onto you PC. DGIndfex can do it as well.

So it looks as if you have some damnaged tape, not tracking well. Rather gruesome. This sort of thing will take some real work and industrial-strength filters. You'll have to learn to work with Avisynth and VirtualDub -- not on the guru or developer level, but certainly something more advanced than the casual user of budget NLE's.

The bottom border of your frames has the usual head-switching noise, and the left border has 4 pixels of white border noise. In Avisynth you can crop pixels off borders and then, keeping the core image content intact, restore the frame size and center the image by adding pixels of black border to the cropped sides. You can do pretty much the same thing in Virtualdub using crop-and-mask techniques (How to Properly Crop the Overscan in VirtualDub [GUIDE]).

These restored black borders are the same black that your PC media players would place around the image to fill a 16:9 frame, and yet are thin enough to exist within the overscan area of your Tv without being noticed (and yes, despite what they tell you at BestBuy, modern TV's do employ overscan by default).

Except for all the rips, tears, and dropouts, the sample doesn't look so bad. Color is above average, tape noise is below average. You have to be a little forgiving and realize that there are two basic reasons why tape doesn't look like DVD. The first reason is base resolution. VHS tape has less detail resolution than typical DVD's, and most DVD's are the result of even higher-resolution masters. The second reason is that amateurs don't take the trouble that pro's take to improve their original camera work. They don't bother with proper exposure or signal level control, improper camera bracing, poor zoom performance, excessive camera motion, and other image degrading effects that pros try to avoid.

Digital encoding of the kind of erratic and severe camera jitter seen here really eats up bitrate and causes obvious imaging deficiencies and increased compression artifacts. So you need higher than normal bitrates to encode this kind of jittery chaos.

I advise at the outset that except for some stabilizing and color work, there's no way VirtualDub can compete with Avisynth for this kind of repair. If not for the tracking distortions (a better tracking line-tbc VCR would avoid a lot of it), you could probably get some good improvements from Virtualdub alone. I had to use some fancy tricks in Avisynth to improve this critter. The results ain't perfect. The attached MP4 still has some residual disturbance in the late 800 frame numbers, 34.5 seconds in, but most of it is cleaned up or smoothed. Hard and fast rule: you can't have everything, and wild motion makes it tougher for filters.

The image below shows a common effect of recorders with less than optimal line tbc circuits. Your combo unit apparently has one on its recording side, although high end units are far more powerful. Look at the red tile work and notice how the white lines are warped. They change shape often during play, the result of inferior tbc line sync. This vertical warpng can't be corrected after capture. Red is a bit oversaturated.



Try viewing that segment of the MPG in VirtualDub at slow speed and you'll see the verticals changing shape.

The image below is a 2X blowup of some upper right detail from interlaced frame 81 of the mpg. The horizontal "rip" or tear across the bottom of the image is called a dropout, also a tear, a rip, and other names not repeatable here. It's partly tape damage, partly tracking. Sometimes you can fast-forward a tape without playing, all the way to the end, then fast-rewind without playing to the start. This helps smooth tape windings to get better tape flow from the feed reel. It's known as "repacking" and sometimes has to be repeated a time or two to smooth the tape layers.


The same frame after Avisynth:


In that brief startup section you'll see objects on the brick wall shift due to bad tracking and low tbc power.

Below, from frame 809 of the original, another type of rip or dropout. There are several Avisynth filters that can smooth these beasts. Most of the time they work, sometimes they don't work so well. At times you just have to live with it.



Frame 809 fixed:


In the above image you can also see a mild bright oversharpening halo around the boys. There's a filter for that, too.

The bad dropouts at the start of the sample are unrecoverable, so I deleted those frames. To fix the distortions I used QTGMC to deinterlace, and used an Avisynth filter to stabilize the jumpy frames a bit and help the other filters. The stabilizer shifts the video a few pixels up and down and side to side, so borders had to be re-cropped and replaced to avoid border twitter. Makes for slightly thicker borders, but leaves the image intact. Progressive video is required for stablizers and motion compensated filters. You might be surprised to find that some of the dropouts affected individual fields differently, not always entire frames. The final output was re-interlaced with Avisynth. VirtualDub offers a much stronger stabilizer, but you'll lose some image when cleaning the big borders it makes.

I think it would be intimidating at this point to get into details about the Avisynth scripts snd plugins I used for the reworked MP4. Three different scripts and lossless working files were used. The lossless master and working files were created using GDindex and Lagarith lossless compression, which you'll need (they're free!). I also made a BluRay encode that I didn't include here. Yes, BluRay has specs for standard definition video, the advantage being higher bitrates than are used for DVD, and more video on BD disc. I posted h.264/mp4 instead of MPEG to get a smaller file for posting. IMO, MPEG doesn't look over filtered like h.264.

I hope the attached MP4 illustrates the possibilities with tools you're probably not accustomed to. There's a learning curve, but the best way to learn is using it instead of just reading about it. But reading in restoration forums certainly helps and is an essential learning tool. Many members here can help you with that if you're willing. If I can do it (li'l ol' me), anyone can.

And I forgot to note....I didn't remux audio into the mp4. But that's enough to do later.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg vertical line sync distortion frame 1104.jpg (51.5 KB, 65 downloads)
File Type: jpg Frame 81 dropout 2X.jpg (30.0 KB, 64 downloads)
File Type: jpg Frame 81 dropout fix 2X.jpg (27.6 KB, 64 downloads)
File Type: jpg Frame 809 dopout C.jpg (62.6 KB, 64 downloads)
File Type: jpg Frame 809 dropout fix C.jpg (56.6 KB, 64 downloads)
Attached Files
File Type: mp4 VTS01_Rework.mp4 (37.14 MB, 3 downloads)
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  #9  
06-09-2017, 07:35 PM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Wow. That is amazing. What a difference

Thanks for all your help.

I will start playing with those programs you mentioned. I have the DVDs so it doesn't matter if I muck something up during initial attempts.

Take care,
Paul

-- merged --

Hi Sanlyn,

I now have some mpg files that I have separated using mpeg streamclip. I found that easiest to use and as I understand it there is no re encoding doing this. If I am wrong could you correct me please.

The resultant clips look really good to me. A lot clearer than the original VHS to DVD capture was.

I do have another newby question though. As VHS (Pal) isn't 720 x 576 resolution could I (should I) change the resolution to something closer to what VHS resolution actually was to get a more 'natural' experience?

If so what resolution and what program would you recommend to do that.

I know. I know. What is 'natural' you ask? I wouldn't have a clue. I guess I mean as the original VHS would have appeared on the TV screen.

If what I have asked isn't worth any time or effort on my part (or your part) and wouldn't make any improvements to how the video looks then I'm happy for you to tell me to pull my head in and leave them as they are :-)

Cheers,

Paul
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  #10  
06-19-2017, 01:32 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
I am looking for a program that is as automated as possible.
This will be you main problem. Video takes work.

Quote:
Does any program recognise common video errors and correct them during the conversion?
No.

Quote:
Some of them need to be cropped. They are all 720x576 which I believe happened during the original conversion.
Why?

Quote:
From what we understand they would benefit from deinterlacing as well?
No. Don't do that.

Quote:
Should I just keep them at the 720x576 resolution
Yes.

Quote:
- from what I understand if I keep them at this resolution and then for example crop a large black line from the bottom that the resolution will change slightly. Is this ok?
Not okay, no.

Quote:
I guess that is it. Neither of us have done anything like this before but we can follow written instructions.
Easy enough request. You're at the right site to learn what to do.

Quote:
The computer that will be used is a 4th Gen Core i7 with 8Gb of ram and a 512Mb discrete (though not overly powerful) Nvidia GeForce 9600Gt.
Should be fine.

Quote:
Ok so far what I did was use the Lord Smurfs Virtualdub to open the main .Vob file and then save it as AVI so that it is uncompressed.
Is that ok? A 17 minute DVD is now a file over 30Gb. I do have a 2Tb portable
Lossless Huffyuv AVI is what you really wanted.

Quote:
It still doesn't look like a brand new Bluray movie yet :-)
It never will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Why mp4?
Also my question. MP4 is streaming container, nothing more. (MKV is gaining in popularity, though also no good reason to use it for this project.)

Quote:
MPG can play anywhere.
Well ... not exactly. My BD player understands MEPG, for example, but has zero controls beyond PLAY and STOP. No FF, no REW, no skipping time, etc. But my WDTV, on the other hand, is fine. Both would have been flawless with MP4 or MKV. Though still NOT a reason to use MP4/MKV for this project.

Quote:
If you don't have an external player that can play MPG from a stick or drive, get a better player.
Kodi boxes. Forget the illegal junk, just get a plain Kodi box. Or WDTV Live, but those are now discontinued, and getting harder to find.

Quote:
If you have a huge file from VirtualDub, you made two newby mistakes. VirtualDub is not friendly with YV12 interlaced video, which is what your DVD is. And you converted it by default to uncompressed RGB
Yes. YUY2 needs to be specified for both input and output in VirtualDyb video settings menu. And the install/choose Huffyuv. Done!

Quote:
The primary means for converting MPG video to working files is the free DGindex utility, which is used with Avisynth to produce a lossleslly compressed YV12 video from MPG.
I use VirtualDub, never DGIndex. It works, but is extra steps. Avisynth mostly sucks with compressed sources, so I just encode to lossless in VirtualDub first. My Skylake build uses SSD, so time is negligible to me. I always did that method, but now it takes almost no time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
The reason I wanted to convert the vob file to mp4 is because I thought that was the file format of choice. If you google “DVD to” the first suggestion that pops up is mp4.
Google is full of non-expert "experts (aka stupid people). You found some.

Quote:
I used a program called DVDVob2mpg. Is that ok?
It's really just a more-complicated DVD Decrypter. And it doesn't work as well.

Quote:
From their Website “DVDVob2Mpg fixes the MPEG stream
A stream rarely needs fixing. More often, if truly based on VOB2MPG, that program borks the stream. I've come across very few DVD recorders that mess it up anyway. And there are easy ways to fix a broken stream. It depends on the error. I know a simple program like that is NOT going to be able to correct all errors.

Quote:
Using this program the mpg file produced is 847Mb. A lot better than the 30Gb
Yes, but you still cannot edit or restore an MPEG. It will need to be extracted to a 35gb/hour lossless file.

Quote:
So I used Avidemux specifying MPEG PS A+V and made sure it was under 99Mb.
You re-encoded a sample? So ... not really a sample anymore.

Quote:
At the end of the 17 minute DVD is ... footage I would like removed as well. Is that easy enough to do? Which program would you recommend I use?
Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD.

Quote:
Are there any other things I can do to improve the quality of the video? They were all dubbed using the same machine and most are the same quality as the attached.
I'll see.

Quote:
I know these old recordings will never be like Blu-ray. That was a joke on my part - I am not very funny
When I get into "video mode", sometimes the analytical part of my brain disengaged the humor/fun side. I'm pretty sure sanlyn gets the same way. Totally missed that it was a joke.

Quote:
I am happy to try Avidemux for editing. It 'seems' easier than Virtualdub.
Avidemux is encoder, not editor. VirtualDub is basic editor for restoration. Womble for "scissors style" cut/paste/etc editing of MPEG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Sorry, guys, if anyone posts a link that doesn't work, just let us know. Here is the corrected link: How to upload a sample from DVD, MPEG-2 with DGindex [GUIDE].
Fixed original post, too. PM me when stuff is broken. We fix!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
One thing I would also like to do with longer dvds is join some video files together e.g. what was originally the Vob 1 and perhaps the first part of Vob 2 etc.
Don't. Very often, specs don't match. All hell breaks loose if you try to merge it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
DVDVOB2MPG should be able to concatenate and copy all the VOB's into a single MPG onto you PC. DGIndfex can do it as well.
concatenate = correct jargon

But don't do it. Even supposedly "like" files often are not entirely alike. If you really want to "merge" sparate recordings, the best idea is to extract back to lossless, merge in VirtualDub/Premiere/etc, and then re-encode.

Simple tools like you're both listing (not DGIndex) miss the small difference. I'd ONLY concatenate if Womble or TMPGEnc Smart Renderer approved it (aka non-reencode merger). And very often, they will refuse, and for good reason.

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  #11  
06-19-2017, 05:49 AM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Hi Lord Smurf,

I used DVD Decrypter to create a single .vob file. Do I just change the file extension to mpg or do I have to use another program to do that?

It worked well. I installed it in XP SP2 mode and it worked flawlessly.

Cheers,
Paul
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06-19-2017, 06:07 AM
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A VOB file is an MPEG with DVD nav/structure data. You can't just rename the extension. Programs like VOB2MPEG were also just renaming, not actually stripping out the nav data. I'd used it in the past, not impressed. You need to use IFO mode mode in Decrypter. In the options, some aspects of the nav/structure can be stripped.

Look at the editing guides: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/guides/video.htm

(Note to self: I also need to add some of sanlyn's new guides.)

The next MPEG editor can usually strip what remains. Womble MPEG Video Wizard is good at this. So is TMPGEnc Smart Renderer. VirtualDub will ignore it for sure, extracting just MPEG frames.

DGIndex can be safer at extracting, which is why sanlyn uses it. Again, the method is sound. And he gave lots of other great advice here. Don't let me talk you out of it. At some point, when all methods are good, it comes down to preference. Maybe individual sources. I wanted to mention that.

What DVD recorder was used? That usually determines if you'll have issues. Or just try and see what happens.

You've been given many options here. I'm still not 100% clear on your goals. If you want to cleanup the video with advanced methods (VirtualDub, maybe Avisynth), then let's start there.

Getting video off a disc is the easy part.

Cleanup is where the real fun begins.

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  #13  
06-19-2017, 06:28 AM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Whoops. Sorry I didn't mention. This particular DVD is perfect already. No editing needed so I just wanted to convert the .vob directly to .mpg
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  #14  
06-19-2017, 07:40 AM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Hi again,

Ok I have opened the .vob file in Lord Smurfs Virtualdub but from the file menu I can only see the option to save as .avi or export to .avi

Obviously I am doing something wrong. I want to export to .mpg (MPEG-2) right?

I tried Womble and the VHS version wouldn't even install on my computer (W10 64Bit) even in compatibility mode. The Womble Video Wizard 5 installed and let me open the .vob file but that was it. There wasn't any option at all I could find that would allow me to convert the .vob to .mpg. In fact there wasn't any way I could find to close the program so I used task manager to end task.

In fact nothing I've found will just make a .vob to .mpg easily except for the ones that you told me don't do a good job. I can't be that stupid right ? Don't answer that

Regards,

Paul
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  #15  
06-19-2017, 07:45 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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VirtualDub can only save AVI.

Windows 10 is a real problem for video hardware and software. That OS was about tablets, and tablet-izing desktops, not video work. That's why Windows 7 is still used by most videographers.

The reason most are "easy" is because shortcuts are taken. And those shortcuts really reduce quality. With video, you must pick on. It's either easy and shitty, or slow/complex and quality. Not even that complex, just now some one-click whizbang tool that requires zero reading.

Why do you wan an MPEG from a DVD? What's next? That may explain what you're doing. Again, I'm still not 100% clear on your ultimate goal here.

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  #16  
06-19-2017, 08:18 AM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
VirtualDub can only save AVI.

Windows 10 is a real problem for video hardware and software. That OS was about tablets, and tablet-izing desktops, not video work. That's why Windows 7 is still used by most videographers.

The reason most are "easy" is because shortcuts are taken. And those shortcuts really reduce quality. With video, you must pick on. It's either easy and shitty, or slow/complex and quality. Not even that complex, just now some one-click whizbang tool that requires zero reading.

Why do you wan an MPEG from a DVD? What's next? That may explain what you're doing. Again, I'm still not 100% clear on your ultimate goal here.

Basically we have heaps of DVD copies of home VHS tapes that were created with a crappy VHS DVD Recorder.

What we want to do is be able to do is go away from DVD to a digital format that can be played on computers and tv's etc and to give copies to family members.

We are happy with some of the DVD's and for those just want to get them to a digital format. Sanlyn and yourself suggested mpeg-2 so I was trying to find a program that could quickly (or at least not too difficult) convert the vob files to that format.

Other DVDs are crappy and would need some of the magic you mention above. But I wanted to do all the decent ones first before attempting the difficult stuff.

I hope that makes sense. I've probably confused myself now :-)

Regards,

Paul
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  #17  
06-19-2017, 09:05 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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A DVD consists of .VOB and other files that control the playback of the DVD video, menus, etc. .VOB is encoded as MPEG2. VOB is a container for MPEG2 video arranged for playback on a DVD. An .MPG file is also container for MPEG2 video -- it has different internal descriptive data than a .VOB, but it's still the same MPEG2 codec.

DVD discs can be played with DVD and BluRay players and on computers that have DVD players (VLC, Media Player Classic, etc., with VLC being more workable) and DVD players that come packaged with DVD PC optical drives. DVD discs can be copied in a PC with disc writing/copying software that comes with DVD optical dives or with free utilities like ImgBurn. It's easier on a PC if you have two optical drives (you put the DVD in one dive and a blank DVD disc in the other drive). If you have only one optical drive, mount the DVD disc in that drive and instruct the copying software to make a disc copy. The software will make a copy of the disc in a temp folder on your PC, then tell you to insert a blank DVD disc for the completion of the copy from the temp folder.

If you want mpg from VOB you already know how to do that. Editing into new segments and rearranging what you want is an editing process that depends on smart-rendering apps like Womble. Smart rendering means that the only part of your cut that is re-encoded is a small portion of a Group Of Pictures (GOP) around the cut area -- otherwise a non-smart rendering app would re-encode the entire video, which is a quality loss and not what you want. If you want to reassemble the MPG edited files you need a program that does that, such as a smart rendering NLE. Remember that smart-rendering pertains only to cuts and joins -- image modification such as color correction, masking or removing head-switching noise, overlay titles, etc., requires re-encoding of the video.

If you want to make a new DVD with menus and proper DVD format, the edited MPG segments must be re-authored for disc with an authoring program. If you just want an edited plain MPG file, they can be played by external players and TVs from USB sticks or USB drives, depending on the TV (some TV's and set top players can't handle USB hard drives). Free programs can do this but freebies lack all but the most simple features.

If you expect to be doing a lot of this smart-rendering with MPG, as well as with mp4 and other containers and codecs, your best bet is a paid program such as TMPGEnc Smart Renderer (the latest version installs only on 64-bit Windows). TMPGEnc has been in this business for a long time, offers excellent performance, and has a long following over the years. It allows importing multiple files, cutting and joining, etc. If you want more comprehensive smart rendering such as full featured authoring and disc burning, a better choice would be TMPGEnc Authoring Works. Both TMPGenc products can import many formats, including VOB/MPG, MP4, MKV, mpeg and h.264/AVC files. Freebies can often do the job, but they lack many features and are harder to use IMO. Also, remember that containers like MP4 can't be made into DVD without re-encoding, and MPG must be re-encoded if you want BluRay. A basic knowledge of containers, formats, and disc authoring specs isn't difficult to come by, but it's not something you can do without. It's best to stick with one or two formats until you get the hang of it.

As you can guess, MPG files destined for cleanup, image modification, and re-encoding require VirtualDub (at least, with Avisynth best for cleanup, although Virtualdub has many filter plugins), and working with decompressed video files that must be re-encoded for the desired final output. Decompressed files are saved as lossless AVi files compressed with Huffyuv or Lagarith lossless compressors. There are some freebies that can combine and convert (encode) losssless decompressed media into MPG/DVD, mp4, mkv, BluRay, and AVCHD. For that I usually use TMPGEnc Mastering Works, but AVStoDVD and other freebies can do that as well although they're more difficult to use and lack some features. An NLE such as older editions of Adobe Premiere Essentials or Corel Video Studio, or big guys like Adobe Premiere Pro (overkill) can do it also. You have to choose the tool for the particular task.

The cleaned-up mp4 posted in post #8 was decoded with DGIndex and Avisynjth, cleaned up as losssless media with Avisynth and VirtualDub, saved as a lossless YV12 with Lagarith lossless compression in Virtualdub, and encoded to mp4 with TMPGEnc Mastering Works' x264 encoder. I could have used TMPGEnc to encode for mp4 and internet posting, mkv, or generic MPG, or DVD, BluRay, or AVCHD.

Last edited by sanlyn; 06-19-2017 at 09:37 AM.
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  #18  
06-19-2017, 10:17 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Casey View Post
What we want to do is be able to do is go away from DVD to a digital format that can be played on computers and tv's etc and to give copies to family members.
Oops, I wsomehow left this remark out of my post above.

DVD is already a digital format and is one of the most universally playable formats around, as mentioned earlier. If you want to make a short MPG version for playing via USB stick, you can do that with the extraction and edit software mentioned above to create edited MPG files that don't require authoring. Just about anything can play a plain, undressed MPG video. It doesn't have to be mp4, which requires re-encoding.
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  #19  
06-19-2017, 09:50 PM
Paul and Casey Paul and Casey is offline
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Hi Sanlyn,

TMPGEnc Smart Renderer seems really good. I am using the trial.

When trying to import the .vob file I created with DVD Decrypter there is an error message that .vob is not supported. It then offers an option to import ‘as is’ but the file content may not be fully or partially imported.

I decided not to go that route and instead I imported the DVD directly. TMPGEnc seemed to like this better. And of course it means I don’t have to use DVD Decrypter first.

I then got a message that “Keyframe information found. Do you wish to import it? A program title will automatically be used as a chapter name when the TS/PGMX/MXF title selection is used.”
I chose ‘no’ to this as any titles that were created happened automatically during the original VHS to DVD dubbing and mean nothing to me.

As I didn’t have to remove any video from this particular DVD I then went straight to the format options. There are two different formats here I am not sure which one to choose. The first is MPEG file and the second is DVD Standard MPEG file. See both screenshots.

At this point should I adjust any of the options e.g. rate control mode, video quality or performance. Size doesn’t matter to me if it means maintaining the best quality video.

I then created MPEG files using the two different formats and couldn’t tell the difference between then on my TV.

Am I correct that with this program there is no loss of quality in what I have done up to this point? That all I have done is taken the MPEG-2 component from the VOB container and put it on my computer? Please say yes as that is what I wanted to do

I am worried that this might not be what I have done as there are options such as rate control mode, video quality and performance must have some effect on the output.
Regards,

Paul


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  #20  
06-19-2017, 10:34 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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TMPGEnc SR5 may not be what you want here. Watch the OUTPUT screen. Does the video play at all? Any video that plays is being re-encoded. Anything that does NOT play is not. So ... what do you see?

My preference is a combo of DVD Decrypter + Womble. It works much better.

SR5 is mostly for streaming formats. It will do SD, but seemingly not without some warnings.

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