VHS capture via ADVC100, edit and compress alternatives?

[ac427]

Many moons ago i bought one of the recommended JVC VCR's and a Canopus ADVC100.

I guess things have moved and reading between the lines on here, the ADVC100 has been surpassed (and slagged off .

1. What is the recommended digitising device these days ?
2. I will need to defeat Macrovision on a couple of the VHS cassettes.
3. What PC (not Mac) software is best for taking the capturing the stream from the ADVC100 or superior device ?

Thanks in advance.

[lordsmurf]

1. It depends on your computer. Mac, Linux or Windows? And then which version. Alternatively, are you willing to build a capture PC dedicated to capture use, using older hardware. AGP, PCI, PCIe and USB options exist. ATI AIW is best, but others do quite decently for lossless capturing.

2. Macrovision is an artificial video error purposely injected in a video stream. TBCs remove those errors.

3. For lossless capturing, VirtualDub.
For that ADVC100, which is DV, not capturing occurs. The data is compressed (and harshly) to DV in the box itself, and the data is merely transferred over Firewire to the computer being used. The word "capturing" is sometimes used, but it is misuse of the term. Sort of like "rendering" when the person means encoding. Wrong terms, different meanings. Sort of like "axeing" a question, as far as I'm concerned. Chop that question down!

(BTW, I still have a few TBCs and capture cards in the marketplace, PM me if interested.)

[ac427]

Thanks Lordsmurf. I can build a dedicated PC. I usually use Windows 7 but could use Win 10 if it has advantages.

Is Linux well supported in terms of capture hardware and editing software ?

Is a capture card the preferred solution?

Once the stream is captured with VirtualDub, which software is good for editing, deleting frames and whole sections from the captured file?

[lordsmurf]

With Windows, the newer is worse it is.
- Win10 is least desired
- Win8 only marginally better than Win10
- Win7 better
- WinVista has approved capture drivers for some cards, but Win7 better and the drivers can be force installed
- WinXP is still ideal for most capturing

Linux desktop is not "well" supported, but it is getting better. I've been following it. Some recent threads in this forum has members sharing some experiences getting cards to work. Windows still easier.

Forgot to mention the software for DV transfer is WinDV.

Editing depends on how complex you want to be. VirtualDub does some basic editing, mostly as digital scissors. I use Premiere CS4 for all of my more complex tasks. Many are Vegas Video fans. And then some forum members like to use Corel.

[ac427]

Would i use WinDV write the stream from the capture card to file or could i use VirtualDub write the file ?

Ps. i've become a premium member.

[lordsmurf]

- WinDV merely accepts the incoming raw DV data, and write it into the AVI container.
- VirtualDub does not do that.

The two programs have very different purposes, even if both are for video in the broader sense.

Thanks for supporting this site as Premium.

[JoRodd]

The ADVC100 defeats Macrovision protection.

[ac427]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoRodd

The ADVC100 defeats Macrovision protection.

Thanks Jo, My ADVC100 does have the v1.1 firmware.

[renkema]

Premium member hi-jacking a premium thread.

jumping in this thread as it appears to be aligned with my premium member post that may be in the wrong forum (dead letter office maybe?).

I bought the Mitsu HS-HD2000u to be the transport for digital capture of older VHS tapes (some recorded with original two head type machines which may pose a problem although the Mitsu has a manual tracking feature). from this OP and response from lordsmurf it would appear the best workflow is:

Mitsu VCR (with the DNR and TBC turned off) >
Cable from Mitsu to AIW card (what cabling (S-VHS??)* >
ATI All in Wonder Card loaded on a Win XP [Dell 8400 in my case] tower [which version of ATI AIW card is best? 1800, 1900, 9600 ??] >
Virtual Dub Software to run capture and create file>
Lossless file [what file type for editing with Avid Media Composer ver 6.x]

* should there be a TBC module between the VCR and the AIW card? if so, what's best?

Thanks

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by renkema

Premium member hi-jacking a premium thread.

Interesting technique for soliciting information about your questions. I just had nothing to do and searched this thread for the hell of it. Does this happen often? How long do you wait for responses?

Quote:

Originally Posted by renkema

Mitsu VCR (with the DNR and TBC turned off)

Okay. Go for it. What will you use for the kind of cleanup and correction that a line tbc does?

Quote:

Originally Posted by renkema

Cable from Mitsu to AIW card (what cabling (S-VHS??)* >

S-VHS is not a cable. It's a tape format. i think you mean "s-video" ?.

Quote:

Originally Posted by renkema

[which version of ATI AIW card is best? 1800, 1900, 9600 ??] >

The favorites seem to be the 7500 and 9600 radeons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by renkema

Lossless file [what file type for editing with Avid Media Composer ver 6.x]

Capture to lossless YUY2 using the latest huffyuv lossless codec. Huffyuv is easiest on CPU during capture. In post processing you'll work with YV12 as well as YUY2 and RGB, so for intermediate work go for Lagarith or UT Video Suite. FInal output before encoding will likely be YV12, which huffyuv can't compress. The major processing tools are Avisynth and VirtuaLDub. Avid is an editor, not a restoration or cleanup app. If you're looking for advice on post processing and quality contol, browse some of the thousands of previous posts in the restoration and quality improvement forums. Capture is only the first step. If all you intend to do is simple cut and join with Avid, lossless capture is largely a wasted effort -- but it makes the highest quality archive.

Best TBC: In the past the best have been the AVT 8710 and the tBC 100/1000/++ series. But you have to find one that works. Check the Marketplace section here. None of them are cheap.

[renkema]

[QUOTE=sanlyn;53530] Capture is only the first step. If all you intend to do is simple cut and join with Avid, lossless capture is largely a wasted effort -- but it makes the highest quality archive.

Interested in understanding this more. I fully understand capture and edit are separate processes (which was probably not readily apparent given my S-VHS cable reference goof). I understand Avid is an Editor and while it may have some vid correction abilities, that's not what it's designed for. Understood, so the focus is on best capture and how to use that in Avid as the highest quality capture for use in Avid Media composer 6.x IS the main goal (not a simple archive). I understand your suggested process and formats for highest quality capture but are you saying such capture is not usable by Avid MC (ie an import of this lossless file into Avid loses that quality and therefore it was a waste of time in the first place)?

[dpalomaki]

Quote:

I understand your suggested process and formats for highest quality capture but are you saying such capture is not usable by Avid MC (ie an import of this lossless file into Avid loses that quality and therefore it was a waste of time in the first place)?

As you recognize, Avid MC is optimized for editing video, and as a high end professional app it is more focused on editing well exposed, skillfully shot, generally noise free video from stable sources. Home VHS and 8mm generally meet none of that criteria. I cannot speak to which CODEC's and wrappers MC supports, but if MC supports the capture file format it can be used. It is just that restoration (as opposed to editing and minor color grading) is generally better performed with tools optimized for those purposes. The tools and techniques focused on at this site forums provide that along with tailoring to the video being worked (e.g., through customized processing scripts) and affordability.

Depending on your quality standard AVID MC along with various available plug-ins may give you the results you seek with less net effort on your part.

[sanlyn]

dplomaki makes some good points. To elaborate, think of VHS as a defective signal to begin with, compared with clean digital sources. Also consider that restoration/repair and "editing" are two different production phases. The restoration and repair phase includes cleanup of common analog source problems: uneven borders, eliminating head switching noise without altering image content, inverse telecine and/or motion compensated deinterlacing when need by various filters, cleanup of chroma noise (rainbows, blotches, border stains, other discolorations), dropouts (spots, ripples, tears, static, image dropout, horizontal rips), frame hopping, displaced or dropped fields and frames, chroma bleed and shift, illegal luma and chroma levels and recovery of clipped data, repair of tape noise and grain, consumer analog camera CMOS noise cleanup, excessive interlace combing, aliasing, DCT ringing and edge halos, precision colorspace conversion -- to mention a few common problems. The reason editors like Avid and Adobe, etc., have no facility for addressing these issues is that they are not designed as repair apps. They're editors and, usually, renderers or converters. Editing and restoration aren't the same thing.