Quantcast What capture card would be best for my needs? - digitalFAQ Forum
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04-18-2018, 10:18 AM
ofesad ofesad is offline
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Hello world!

Ofesad here from Argentina (please excuse my french).

I have been going back and forward about what gear would be best for start video tape capturing / restoring.

Yes, I 've read the guides of this forum, so hopefully some of you could give some tips, opinions or comments about what would work best for my needs.

So, let's starts for what I have:

PC's: 3 Pc's.
Main with W10 x64, FX8350, 16gb DDR3, BenQ PD2700 100% sRGB and Rec.709 monitor 2k resolution
Secondary with W7 x64, Q6600, 4gb ram DDR3
Older with W7 x86 Athlon X2, 2gb DDR2

Some audio filters and rack mounted gear for audio processing (exciters, eq, filters).

VCR: Sony Slv-l56ar (Argentinian model) (Manual and Specs)
It doesn't mention to have an TBC, altought the picture always looked amazing on my home cinema.
It has Sony's APC (Adaptive Picture Control) that, according to Sony, "automatically optimizes recording and playback performance".

The VCR is connected to a Yamaha RX-V673 receiver with RCA.

So, my questions and doubts:


My plans are mostly digitalizing old vhs home movies, denoise, editing, color correction, restore (if possible) and recording it to DVD.

It would be nice to have the option of capturing uncompressed video.

Has anyone used old capture cards like the Ati's AIW pci cards on W10? It works?
Has anyone try'd to use the Ati AIW with VirtualPC / VirtualMachine? For example run a virtualpc on W10 to run XP or 7, do the capture there and then edit on W10.

Would be a bad idea to get an HDMI capture device and capture the Yamaha receiver output?

I would like to get a TBC, sadly here it's impossible to buy one locally. I would have to order it from US or Europe. So, for now, it will have to wait.

My budget: around 300usd. Keep in mind that whatever I order I have to order it from ebay (us or europe) and then pay argentinian import taxes (50% value of the product + shipping).

I have been looking for capture devices that do all things (HDMI, S-video, composite), but there's always something I dislike (compression, noise, output, encoding, etc).

If the devices supports HDMI, s-video and composite, the better. However, I have no problem on settling for one with composite only!

Suggestions on what capure card (usb or pci) to buy are very very welcome!

Thank you all for reading!
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  #2  
04-18-2018, 02:30 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofesad View Post
Ofesad here from Argentina (please excuse my french)
Welcome to digitalfaq.
If you can, excuse my frequently bad typing in English !

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofesad View Post
PC's: 3 Pc's.
Main with W10 x64, FX8350, 16gb DDR3, BenQ PD2700 100% sRGB and Rec.709 monitor 2k resolution
Secondary with W7 x64, Q6600, 4gb ram DDR3
Older with W7 x86 Athlon X2, 2gb DDR2
Windows 10 is a disaster for video work and video software. It's a toy.

Use the Windows 7 PC's. One or both of those W7 PC's will need an extra hard drive for capturing. Don't capture to the same drive that has your operating system. There is too much system activity on the main drive that causes capture problems.

Your principle software and codecs for capture, repair, restoration, lossless codecs, and color correction will be 32-bit. There is no advantage to using 64-bit software, which is very limited. You can use 32-bit versions of everything on both 32-bit and 64-bit Windows. Your principle capture and restoration tools will be:

- 32-bit VirtualDub version 1.9.11. Version 10x is too buggy. https://www.videohelp.com/download/V...Dub-1.9.11.zip. Partial List of available VirtualDub filters: http://www.infognition.com/VirtualDubFilters/.
Updated VirtualDub capture guide: Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide]

- 32-bit huffyuv lossless codec for lossless capture with VirtualDub. https://www.videohelp.com/download/huffyuv-2.1.1.zip

- 32-bit Lagarith lossless codec for lossless intermediate working files: https://lags.leetcode.net/LagarithSetup_1327.exe.

- 32-bit Avisynth 2.60: https://www.videohelp.com/download/AviSynth_260.exe. Partial list of Avisynth available filters: http://avisynth.nl/index.php/External_filters. Avisynth home page: http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Main_Page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofesad View Post
VCR: Sony Slv-l56ar (Argentinian model)
Frankly, you should have a better VCR. I realize that it isn't always possible to afford one with a TBC, and s-video output is preferred by far. Otherwise you will have to accept the fact that tracking, noise levels, lowered detail, lower acutance, problems such as dropouts, frame hop, etc., will be post-process problems to contend with. The quality of your effort starts with playback. Lower-quality playback means lower-quality captures to contend with, regardless of the capture card used. You can make the SONY work tolerably well if you're patient with post-capture cleanup.

However you must have a line-level tbc of some kind, even if it isn't built-in. Capture-time cleanup of line sync timing errors is mandatory and cannot be corrected with software. Analog tape doesn't behave on digital capture devices the way it does on TV. Many users have a less expensive pass-thru device to take advantage of its built-in line-level and frame-level correction circuits. With a pass-thru your VCR is connected to the pass-thru device, then the pass-thru is connected to your capture device. The recommended pass-thru machines are a used Panasonic DMR-ES10 or DMR-ES15. Most other machines of this type cannot be used for pass-thru, or their circuits are so weak as to be useless for this purpose.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...hat-do-you-use

video demo: tbc -vs- no tbc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMA5aH_olAQ
video demo: tbc -vs- no tbc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfx97Mr7bqs
video demo: tbc -vs- no tbc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=japFCgCVd00

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofesad View Post
It would be nice to have the option of capturing uncompressed video.
Uncompressed files are huge, even for standard def video. Rather, capture to losslessly compressed AVI using a lossless compressor. Huffyuv is recommended because it is fast, makes the most efficient use of the CPU, and is in common use. Capture to lossless YUY2 color, which resembles the color as stored in VHS. Use a frame size of 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL), which is used for DVD and standard def BluRay. Lossless video can be resized for web mounting with minimal damage. Uncompressed capture is tough on a CPU and causes dropped/inserted frames and poor audio sync. Lossless captures with Huffyuv run about 30GB per hour, and most lossless captures are later archived as smaller files using various codecs. Users seldom save intermediate working files.

Lossless captures are usually transferred (copied) to external USB drives for storage. Don't use a PC for storage. Use external drives for storage and pull off smaller sections of video for processing. Join work files later for encoding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofesad View Post
Would be a bad idea to get an HDMI capture device and capture the Yamaha receiver output?
It would be a very bad idea. The circuitry behind HDMI and HDMI capture is a poor choice for standard definition analog sources. Use s-video into a capture device optimized for that purpose. Not all capture devices are optimized for analog capture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofesad View Post
Has anyone used old capture cards like the Ati's AIW pci cards on W10? It works?
Has anyone try'd to use the Ati AIW with VirtualPC / VirtualMachine? For example run a virtualpc on W10 to run XP or 7, do the capture there and then edit on W10.
Legacy All In Wonder cards have drivers for XP only. The best of them require AGP or PCie mounts. The old PCI versions are acceptable but inferior to AGP/PCIe. AFAIK an AISW will workm from an XP partition boot, but not from a virtual machine. And, yes, the All In Wonder line was/is among the best capture cards ever made. They are in worldwide use by pros and amateurs alike, and their owners are reluctant to part with them. Beware of buying these cards on auction sites: the cards require specific proprietary adapters. Without the accessories, the cards are useless. AIW's accept composite and s-video input. S-video is preferred to prevent effects such as dot crawl, chroma upsampling error, and excessive chroma noise, which are difficult to eliminate in post-processing.

Again, Windows 10 is a poor choice for video work. Stick with XP and/or W7.

Here is a brief history of AIW cards and models: ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC. My own AIW cards are the AIW 7500 Radeon AGP and the AIW 9600XT Radeon AGP. I also use a VC500 USB with Win7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ofesad View Post
Suggestions on what capure card (usb or pci) to buy are very very welcome!
Easier to find nowadays are USB capture cards. A few have performance that can compete fairly well with the old AIW cards. Beware of EZCap (aka "Easy-Crap") and its cheap Asian copies. Three USB devices are currently recommended and popular: the ATI 600 USB, Hauppauge USB Live-2, and Diamond Multimedia VC500. They cost less than the old AIW's because they are dedicated capture-only devices, while the AIW line were full-service graphics accelerators used to power prime monitors. The ATI 600 requires special procedures for installing in Windows10 -- but, again, the problem isn't ATI -- the problem is Windows 10. The Hauppauge and VC500 cards come with software for Windows XP thru W10.

Software: be careful about the "professional" results claimed by NLE editing software. Editors, whether cheap or extravagant, are not restoration apps. They are editors, period. They're good for cut and join, special effects, and encoding, but they have no talent whatsoever for denoising or other cleanup work. Most editors will accept lossless media for edits.

It would be of great use to browse through other project threads that have been posted over the past few weeks and months in the capture, edit, and restoration forums. Those posts contain a wealth of information that you won't find elsewhere.
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