Quantcast AVT-8710 alternatives, wavy distortions, color bars? - digitalFAQ Forum
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05-10-2018, 01:36 PM
cpayne825 cpayne825 is offline
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Hey all. So I've been trying to get into this VHS to Digital to get some old home movies converted over to files. As I have been doing research, and as I have witnessed, I need a TBC as I am getting some wavy distortion in the video when converted (like when someone is walking in the video with the camera, or quick pans, etc).

I've read all over the forums about the AVT-8710 and all of it's flaw. And I read that the truly good versions of that was the green box. So I bought one at https://www.hdtvsupply.com/tibaco1.html. Or so I thought I was getting the green one. I opened the box and it was the black one that everyone has been saying isn't any good.

Out of curiosity, I plugged it in to see if it would work. After checking the wires and the VCR, and checking the video capture (ELGATO), all I was getting was color bars on the output. I read that if the signal isn't strong enough that it might do that. So I tried it on another VCR and a DVD player -- still color bars.

So my questions to the forum:
1) Is there anything else I can try to not get color bars only before I send this thing back?
2) Since the DataVideo TBC-1000 has been discontinued, what else can I use that won't TOTALLY break the bank?
3) Is there a PCI card that has TBC built in already. A friend use to capture video from video tape back in the day and I don't remember him ever having to deal with this :/

PS. I am trying to also convert video from a 8MM Camcorder. So I am plugging it into the Elgato. This is where I REALLY need the TBC help. Camcorder doesn't have anything. Neither does the JVC VHS player I am using.

Thanks for the help. I need it desperately
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  #2  
05-10-2018, 02:25 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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What kind of "wavy distortion"? Sounds like you need a line tbc, not a frame tbc.
Find a used Panasonic DMR-ES10 or DMR-ES15, use it as a pass=-thru device and get both tbc's in one. Will not prevent disturbances from copy protection, however. The ES10 or ES15 are the most effective pass-thru devices we know of.

Elgato? Maybe when you know more about video you'll get rid of that one.
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05-10-2018, 02:31 PM
cpayne825 cpayne825 is offline
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Thanks for the info, Sanlyn. I'm really kinda new to all of this so I have been educating myself. It's been a LONG time since I've done any kind of video capturing.

I've also got the Diamond VC500. I purchased both to see if one of those would affect the issue I am having. I don't need all the bells and whistles of that software as I have the Adobe CC suite and import all of my video into Premiere Pro.

Any suggestions for a capture card? I'm totally open to anything (and I can still send back the Elgato Video Capture)
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05-10-2018, 04:04 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpayne825 View Post
I've also got the Diamond VC500.
The VC500 will get cleaner captures than the Elgato, which is a noisy piece of work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpayne825 View Post
I don't need all the bells and whistles of that software as I have the Adobe CC suite and import all of my video into Premiere Pro.
That's a shame. NLE's are notoriously inferior capture software, and Adobe isn't at all useful for cleaning up analog source -- especially if it's being capped to lossy codecs, which is a quality hit from the start.

But whatever you think works for you.
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05-13-2018, 01:18 PM
themaster1 themaster1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpayne825 View Post
So my questions to the forum:
1) Is there anything else I can try to not get color bars only before I send this thing back?
An obvious one: Try differents inputs (composite,s-video)

I am not familiar with avt (even though i always wanted one) but for my education would it send color bars with a supposedly "weak signal" ??
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  #6  
05-13-2018, 03:42 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Welcome.

I hate "please help" thread titles, so I've changed it to be more descriptive to the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpayne825 View Post
Hey all. So I've been trying to get into this VHS to Digital to get some old home movies converted over to files.
How many tapes are talking about? Too many people overlook just having it done professionally, and it'll actually be cheaper than (or the same price as) DIY. But it depends on tape count, and running time of said tapes (SP vs EP).

Quote:
As I have been doing research, and as I have witnessed, I need a TBC as I am getting some wavy distortion in the video when converted (like when someone is walking in the video with the camera, or quick pans, etc).
Wavy at top of screen, or wavy all over the image?
Top-screen only is tearing. All over image is timing errors for line TBCs.

Quote:
I've read all over the forums about the AVT-8710 and all of it's flaw. And I read that the truly good versions of that was the green box. So I bought one at https://www.hdtvsupply.com/tibaco1.html. Or so I thought I was getting the green one. I opened the box and it was the black one that everyone has been saying isn't any good.
Green units are from the 2000s, almost 10 years old. Anything sold by a store will be a black unit from the 2010s, regardless of the stock photos being used on their site.

Quote:
Out of curiosity, I plugged it in to see if it would work. After checking the wires and the VCR, and checking the video capture (ELGATO), all I was getting was color bars on the output. I read that if the signal isn't strong enough that it might do that. So I tried it on another VCR and a DVD player -- still color bars.
Assuming you have all your wires correct, it's probably a faulty copy of the unit. But even if was a "working" black unit, it'd have flaws. So time for a refund on it. Send it back, be done with that. Let's move on to something that does work for you.

Quote:
2) Since the DataVideo TBC-1000 has been discontinued, what else can I use that won't TOTALLY break the bank?
We've talked about TBCs, but you've not yet mentioned the VCR. What are you using? Because it doesn't sound like you have a JVC S-VHS VCR in the mix, and the VCR is the most important item in the workflow. All are important, but VCR comes first. That's what gets the data off the tape, which TBC and capture card then process.

Also keep in mind that I have gear available in the marketplace forum, and you can always PM me about it. I need to update those posts soon, remove some gear (sold), add others (finally ready to sell).

Quote:
3) Is there a PCI card that has TBC built in already.
No.

Note that a couple of cards market this, but in-depth research has shown it to be nonsense. It's because "TBC" is a wide term, with too many interpretations. As I wrote elsewhere on the site, some companies stretch it so far that it seems as if my toaster might have a TBC.

Quote:
A friend use to capture video from video tape back in the day and I don't remember him ever having to deal with this :/
You probably do know about it, or his was doing low-quality transfers, or you just forgot. Lots of possibilities here. But needing a TBC has never changed, a fact of digital video life since inception. I've had to use TBCs since the 90s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
What kind of "wavy distortion"? Sounds like you need a line tbc, not a frame tbc. Find a used Panasonic DMR-ES10 or DMR-ES15, use it as a pass=-thru device and get both tbc's in one. Will not prevent disturbances from copy protection, however. The ES10 or ES15 are the most effective pass-thru devices we know of.
Yes.

The are many TBC types, but the most important for us is the line TBC and the external framesync TBC. Line is found in high-end S-VHS VCRs, while framesync is external units. Line mostly cleans the image, and external mostly cleans the signal. So AVT-8710 won't clean up wavy distortion, but it does prevent dropped frames and other artifacts. So you need both.

The ES10 isn't really a TBC, but is closest to line in behavior. It still allows image corruptions to happen, because it was crippled to appease Macrovision. And since Macrovision/anti-copy is nothing more than an artificial video error, real video errors can be mistaken for the fake ones. ES10 also has other NR side effects, making it not transparent like true TBCs. Best use for tearing only. However, it can be a compromise piece, though you need to know the drawbacks.

Quote:
Elgato? Maybe when you know more about video you'll get rid of that one.
I hate Elgato because the don't really use any models on their gear. Just that stupid brand name. Some of the earlier Elgate was actually quite good, using good chipsets. But most of the latter ones, meaning anything new (and for years now) is crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpayne825 View Post
I've also got the Diamond VC500. I purchased both to see if one of those would affect the issue I am having. I don't need all the bells and whistles of that software
That card is fine, but use VirtualDub only.

Quote:
as I have the Adobe CC suite and import all of my video into Premiere Pro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
That's a shame. NLE's are notoriously inferior capture software, and Adobe isn't at all useful for cleaning up analog source -- especially if it's being capped to lossy codecs, which is a quality hit from the start.
NLEs are good at editing, maybe color correction. But that's it. Those are horrible at both capturing and restoring. That's not at all the tool you should be using. You have no idea what NLEs are doing. For example, NLEs don't report dropped frames, probably the single most important aspect of capturing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster1 View Post
An obvious one: Try differents inputs (composite,s-video)
I am not familiar with avt (even though i always wanted one) but for my education would it send color bars with a supposedly "weak signal" ??
I've never seen a "weak signal" problem. The color bars won't even overtake the image due to snow. It literally has to be "no signal" for the color bars to kick in. The composite vs. s0video is good troubleshooting, but assuming he's wired correctly, it sounds like a dud unit. It happens, especially on those post-2010 POS. It's not the first time I've read about more than just chipset buffer fails.

In terms of always wanting one, what are you most curious about?

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