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  #1  
06-20-2018, 03:03 PM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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Hi all.

Thanks for al the help behind the scenes, LS, I figured I can post some questions out here now so others can help/benefit.

Long story short, Ive taken on the project of outfitting several concert tapers with gear to transfer their vhs and hi-8 collections to lossless/HUffyUV for long term historical archive.

Im working with various existing gear in each situation, but mostly building workflows from scratch.

Current question: Is there best choice for a PCIe capture card? Is the Aja LH 10-Bit a good choice? I see that Blackmagic isnt well regarded. I know the ati 600 is, and Im going to have to build a box for one of those for one person already.

But given a decent budget, what would you choose?

Sorry if already asked/answered ten million times. Ive read a lot. Not sure if thinking has changed.
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  #2  
06-20-2018, 10:57 PM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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I've had excellent results from my ATI All-In-Wonder X1800 installed in a PCIe x16 video slot on a tower computer running Windows XP. (Note: all three factors are critical. The capture drivers will not work under Vista or later. It's a FULL SIZE card and needs a full-sized case. And it has to go in the x16 slot and be the only video card on the system. You won't want to use an XP machine for anything besides air-gapped capture, anyway.) And there's an eBay seller currently trying to unload ATI X1800 cards for $22 each.

NOTE: I tell you three times, this $22 card will be WORTHLESS without the Video-In-Video-Out cable which is NOT included in the eBay purchase. However, at least as of a few months ago, there was an aftermarket alternative available through svideo.com. Get in touch with them and make sure that they still have the ($3.95) cable available FIRST. Then make sure that you have a compatible PCIe computer with Windows XP (check refurbishers and resale shops). Finally, order the eBay card. Installation really wasn't that difficult with the official CD (included with the eBay purchase), but you may have to tweak settings in VirtualDub to get the proper lossless capture (plenty of guides elsewhere on this site).

That's my recommendation. Good luck!

Edit To Add: Using the ATI card will be like running a V8 Cadillac on five cylinders if you don't get a good VCR with line TBC AND a good frame-level external TBC.

One More Edit: Your PCIe XP computer will need to have a modern power supply with a 6-pin connector to provide power to a graphics card. I'd want to make sure it's at least 300 watts; 450 preferred. Also, a hot-swap SATA hard drive bay or eSATA external HDD dock is an excellent idea.

Hopefully the last Edit: Another piece of the puzzle is a good sound card; the ATI card captures video only. Using your PCs built-in audio is Not Recommended.

Last edited by ehbowen; 06-20-2018 at 11:14 PM. Reason: Add a thought.
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  #3  
06-21-2018, 06:47 PM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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Thank you much for that. Seems like ATI is the standard, even though they are pretty ancient.

Is there any point considering some of the more recent cards by Aja? 10 Bit?

Is there anything “modern” that does a better job?

FYI, video is the priority. Audio will be discarded and replaced with better sources.
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  #4  
06-22-2018, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judd_the_budd View Post
Thanks for al the help behind the scenes, LS, I figured I can post some questions out here now so others can help/benefit.
Yes, tech questions always best on the forum.

Quote:
Current question: Is there best choice for a PCIe capture card?
But given a decent budget, what would you choose?
I don't like PCIe cards. That said, the ATI AIW PCIe is best. My major gripe with the ATI AIW PCIe is that it tends to justify the 740x480 capture palette hard to the left or right, and not centered. Most gear has some degree of offset (VCRs, TBCs, capture cards), but you rarely see hard left or right. But my gripe is mostly when capturing MPEG via ATI MMC. You can easily fix the offset in the post-capture work (restoration, editing), from a lossless capture, while doing everything else that's needed. ATI MMC in PCIe is also flawed, no dropped frames counter (so no idea if the capture is good).

Quote:
Is the Aja LH 10-Bit a good choice? I see that Blackmagic isn’t well regarded. I know the ati 600 is, and I’m going to have to build a box for one of those for one person already.
Aja, sure, but expensive.
Blackmagic, no, never, only good at HD, not SD -- something BM support admits.

Quote:
Sorry if already asked/answered ten million times. I’ve read a lot. Not sure if thinking has changed.
10M+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ehbowen View Post
I've had excellent results from my ATI All-In-Wonder X1800 installed in a PCIe x16 video slot on a tower computer running Windows XP. (Note: all three factors are critical. The capture drivers will not work under Vista or later.
All good advice.

But, just for trivia sake, you can actually install the AIW drivers under Vista x86 and Win7 x86. But it's not reliable, not fun, and quite the adventure. jwillis, JMP and myself have all done it in the past -- but none of us have managed to reliably repeat the steps on all systems tried. The PCIe does not work at all, only AGP, PCI and USB (a very, very finicky AIW USB at that).

Quote:
Edit To Add: Using the ATI card will be like running a V8 Cadillac on five cylinders if you don't get a good VCR with line TBC AND a good frame-level external TBC.
He's covered here.

Quote:
Hopefully the last Edit: Another piece of the puzzle is a good sound card; the ATI card captures video only. Using your PCs built-in audio is Not Recommended.
Yes. Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (PCI) recommended, under $20 on eBay. Be sure the seller ships it in a box with padding, envelope shipping will destroy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judd_the_budd View Post
Seems like ATI is the standard, even though they are pretty ancient.
It's not ancient. If you want ancient, look at 1990s video cards. These are just "not new", noting that nothing decent for video capture has been made in about 10 years now. It's all about HD now, and "to hell with SD/VHS" is the general attitude.

It's like saying the Grateful Dead is ancient music.

Quote:
Is there any point considering some of the more recent cards by Aja? 10 Bit?
No. That's really what you call an "NLE card", because it integrates tightly with an NLE. It's beyond even my needs. When I worked for studios, we had one workstation outfitted with an NLE card. It was for more complex SD projects, which I didn't do (nor want to). I was tasked with SD conversion, archiving, and restoration.

Quote:
Is there anything “modern” that does a better job?
For PCI express? No.
For USB, there are options.

Quote:
FYI, video is the priority. Audio will be discarded and replaced with better sources.
Really? Interesting.

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  #5  
06-22-2018, 02:00 PM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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Yep, its all about the video.

There are numerous people on the audio side who capture, process and distribute audio. Most of the shows Im trying to capture decent video for already have remastered 24 Bit audio available, as well as dozens of other options. There are other people in my crew who sync the captured vid to the upgraded audio tracks.

They have been doing this for a long time, but because no one really has the video skills and had been using improper workflows (vhs>Canopus>dv>hd>dvd) the captures already done are pretty poor compared to what I think is possible. So Im attempting to help give it another try.

I need to capture as much bit depth and video luma/chroma etc as possible so others with better post processing skills can restore as desired now and down the road. (Im using those words, but only have a vaguest notion what they really mean...)

-- merged --

LS,

Heres the comp one of my guys is working with. Windows 7. Id like to make it into a capture rig if possible.

https://www.dell.com/downloads/globa..._specsheet.pdf

Will ati cards work? How about Aja Kona LHi?

Not PCI, so TBC 100 wont work, right?
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  #6  
06-22-2018, 07:07 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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That Dell says
Quote:
; one PCI 32-bit/33MHz 5V slot (half length in desktop chassis orientation).
Half-length PCI is 6.9" accord to Wikipedia. The DataVideo TBC-100 is exactly 6" and therefore should fit. The TBC doesn't capture, it passes in and back out via s-video or composite (and never use composite if s-video available).

Again, Aja wouldn't be my choice. ATI AIW always when possible. If OS cannot be XP, then I'd opt for USB such as ATI 600 USB.

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  #7  
06-23-2018, 12:07 AM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
That Dell says

Half-length PCI is 6.9" accord to Wikipedia. The DataVideo TBC-100 is exactly 6" and therefore should fit. The TBC doesn't capture, it passes in and back out via s-video or composite (and never use composite if s-video available).
Good eye. Thx!

Quote:
Again, Aja wouldn't be my choice.
But it’s so pretty!

Quote:
ATI AIW always when possible. If OS cannot be XP, then I'd opt for USB such as ATI 600 USB.
Okay....
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  #8  
06-23-2018, 09:27 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Given your budget, and your needs, I'm just not going to say "yes, go buy a $1300 video card". You're not integrating with NLE, not doing HD. You have SD sources, and trying to maximize your crowdsourced funds. If you can get the same quality for under $100, versus $1300, it's a no-brainer.

But I also don't want to give the idea that the Aja is a bad card. It's not. But it's not for everyone -- not even for me!

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