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  #1  
07-22-2018, 02:19 PM
Junior1s Junior1s is offline
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Hello Lordsmurf,

I have a fundamental question. I have an Alienware M18 R3 laptop with dual Nvidia 780's, I7 intel processors, 32 gigs of ram, SSD C: drive and 750G secondary drive. On the analog side I have a JVC HR S9911U, TBC1000, Data video proc amp and digital enhancer.

I will be using my alienware laptop along with Premiere Pro if needed. I would like to use an external USB digital converter. I have a Canopus ADVC110, but the problem is it is firewire and can't connect to my laptop. I was looking at the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle. According to the Black Magic website they say end users have successfully used my model laptop with the Intensity.

Question:
Is the Black Magic Intensity a good option for excellent quality transfers of VHS and SVHS family tapes?

Thanks!
Mark
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  #2  
07-22-2018, 03:23 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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What exactly is "Data video proc amp and digital enhancer". Model?

The Canopus DV box will lose quality anyway, so no loss to you by it not working anymore. There is better USB conversion hardware.

No, a Blackmagic card is not meant for SD. There are many issues, especially dropped frames, as reported in this forum. Even Blackmagic techs themselves admit that those cards are not meant for VHS/conversumer sources. It's pro gear for pro analog sources (Betacam, etc).

One of the favorite USB options is the ATI 600 USB.
Also, in the marketplace forum: For Sale: new ATI 600/AIW USB capture cards

Using a laptop is fine, Premiere Pro is exacellent.
Just remember: If this is a "for everything" laptop, you may have issues as background apps continuously "do stuff" that interrupts a capture. You can have it online, not have anti-virus/etc active, and turn off Windows Updates. The computer needs quiet, to think, to process the capture, and not mess up (ie, not drop frames). Modern systems are like trying to concentrate in a football stadium while a game is being played. Windows 10 is the worst OS for capture, because this noise is ingrained into it, almost impossible to make it focus. Win10 is like a kid with ADHD on crack.

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  #3  
07-22-2018, 06:10 PM
Junior1s Junior1s is offline
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Sorry I meant "Sign Video" Digital Enhancer and Proc Amp., not "Data Video". I run windows 7 on a pretty powerful laptop, so I think it would be up to the task of capturing. The USB capture device is called Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle for USB 3.0. You can see the specs here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity
It says it is 10 bit uncompressed conversion, so I thought this would be a good quality option.
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  #4  
07-22-2018, 06:22 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Ah, SignVideo, no more info needed there.

Again, Blackmagic is terrible option for SD. You will have problems. Anybody that claims they have "no problems" simply is not paying attention, not noticing the damage. Most video folks are very aware of the Blackmagic limitations. It's an HD card, SD is afterthought that doesn't work on many sources. I can't lay it out any more explicit than that. It's crap, wrong tool for this job.

Everything else (VCR, etc) is solid, and that card would be a mistake, a bad spot in the workflow, the weak link.

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  #5  
07-23-2018, 04:31 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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Sorry to say this but I can't agree to LordSmurf opinion about the Blackmagic Intesity Shuttle card.

On a german speaking videoforum they had test many capture cards (for example Hauppauge USB, Pinnacle USB 500, MovieBox..., Canopus ADVC 300,Terratec grabster..... and many more) and one of the two favourites solutions was the blackmagic card.

But you should know: FORGET ALL ANALOG INPUTS on this card they didn't work correctly.
We use only the hdmi input and capture in YUV 4:2:2 uncompressed.
the workflow looks like this:

VHS(SVHS) recorder- DVD Recorder with HDMI Output - HDMI SPlitter (to remove the copy protection HDCP)- HDMI Input on the blackmagic intensity shuttle card

Unfortunately the first steps to install this capture workflow for the first time is a little tricky.

You can find a tutorial with pictures but only in german language here:
https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?thread/47572-tutorial-hochwertiges-digitalisieren-von-analogen-vhs-videokassetten-und-andere/

One of the biggest problems is to find a hdmi splitter who works to remove the HDCP.

But with this capture way you can use up to date pc hardware.
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  #6  
07-23-2018, 09:19 AM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post

VHS(SVHS) recorder- DVD Recorder with HDMI Output - HDMI SPlitter (to remove the copy protection HDCP)- HDMI Input on the blackmagic intensity shuttle card

I donít know that much, and Iíll be the first to admit that, but using a dvd recorder for the a>d conversion seems pretty iffy. What model? Panasonic Es 10/15?

J
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  #7  
07-23-2018, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
Sorry to say this but I can't agree to LordSmurf opinion about the Blackmagic Intesity Shuttle card.
But you should know: FORGET ALL ANALOG INPUTS on this card they didn't work correctly.
What's amusing is that we're not disagreeing.
- You're saying to bypass SD for HD capturing with some workarounds.
- I said that SD is terrible and HD capturing is fine (though not best).

We're basically saying the same thing.

The bigger problem is that HD capturing would enforce 16x9 resolutions, and I'm not sure it would respect interlace. You're getting into video voodoo territory with a chain of devices that may have unforeseen effects and consequences.

It is a viable method, but I find it really hackish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judd_the_budd View Post
Panasonic Es 10/15?
No.

DVD recorders with HDMI out are not common, and many have issues (as is the case with most DVD recorders).

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  #8  
07-23-2018, 03:50 PM
Junior1s Junior1s is offline
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Lordsmurf,

I am not familiar with how the ATI 600USB works or even what it looks like. Do you have a link on this website to any tutorial on how you use this? You called it a "card". When I hear "card" it makes me think of something that plugs into a motherboard. Is this a USB connection?

Thanks,

Mark
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  #9  
07-23-2018, 04:28 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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With the DVD-recorder HDMI route you still capture interlaced SD (e.g 576i or 480i), it's just done through HDMI rather than S-Video. Of course you could capture upscaled (and deinterlaced) video if the device supports it but I don't see why one would do that, unless the DVD-recorder only outputs upscaled video (no idea if that is the case for some recorders or not) as it would mess with the quality as stated.

I have only briefly tested this method with a JVC-DRM300 player, the recorded video from a standard VHS player connected via composite didn't look too bad at first sigh (maybe a result of the LSI chip?). Though as stated you are at the mercy of the quirks and limiations of the DVD-recorder, e.g on my JVC there doesn't seem to be much in the way of image adjustment, so there may be clipping or overactive noise reduction going on. I could also get pretty much the same result with a Diamond VC500 card using the S-video output on the dvd-recorder. Don't know the specifics of the Panasonic recorders that are suggested in the gleitz thread.

I would echo LS' suggestion here though, given the equipment OP has I don't see any advantage in the HDMI route.

Last edited by hodgey; 07-23-2018 at 05:10 PM.
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  #10  
07-23-2018, 04:40 PM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior1s View Post
Lordsmurf,

I am not familiar with how the ATI 600USB works or even what it looks like. Do you have a link on this website to any tutorial on how you use this? You called it a "card". When I hear "card" it makes me think of something that plugs into a motherboard. Is this a USB connection?

Thanks,

Mark

Read all of the pinned (yellow) threads.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/

Last edited by Judd_the_budd; 07-23-2018 at 05:08 PM.
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  #11  
07-23-2018, 04:56 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Stay away from Blackmagic. People who claim that it works fine, simply unaware that this device drops frames at random without reporting them. If you’re not provided the evidence of missing frames, obviously you think that it works fine. I was able to identify flaws comparing to different capture cards. Unfortunately at this point I can’t recommend a good USB card that captures losslessly.

Last edited by metaleonid; 07-23-2018 at 05:11 PM.
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  #12  
07-23-2018, 05:07 PM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
Stay away from Blackmagic. People who claim that it works fine, simply unaware that this device drops frames at random without reporting them. People who’re going to claim that it works fine and it doesn’t drop frames would not know because once again Blackmagic doesn’t report them. Unfortunately at this point I can’t recommend a good USB card that captures losslessly.
Have you tried the kona LHi? We are experimenting with it now. New version of capture software doesn’t support as many output formats, so we are going backwards in version history. Not sure what we will ultimately find.

Any experience w osprey? 260e looks pretty attractive. Probably try that one soon as well.
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  #13  
07-23-2018, 08:14 PM
Junior1s Junior1s is offline
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I wish in 2018 there were more better usb options. It seems like all the Pro choices are always cards that plug into a mother board. I have been reading all the info on the ATI 600usb on this website. Am I correct that this card is no longer being made? There is a whole lot of vhs tapes needing to be digitized, I am surprised at how little options there are for high end usb converters.
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  #14  
07-23-2018, 08:21 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judd_the_budd View Post
Have you tried the kona LHi? We are experimenting with it now. New version of capture software doesn’t support as many output formats, so we are going backwards in version history. Not sure what we will ultimately find.

Any experience w osprey? 260e looks pretty attractive. Probably try that one soon as well.
I now have HDMI capture board ADV7842 from analog devices. I was able to configure it. It's got TBC inside which is configurable too. I haven't done any long captures with it yet. Just short test captures. My expectations are that this is the best analog capture card quality wise out there. I tend to be using it with my LaserDisc player LD-S2.

By the way, I wanted to add to my previous post. As I mentioned from my experience Blackmagic was dropping frames without reporting them. This has been confirmed. Canopus ADVC-300 was inserting extra frames here and there possibly to keep up with audio sync. The extra frames were not reported either. This has been confirmed too.

I do not recommend ATI 600 USB because it cripples chroma. However, since VHS have low chroma to begin with, this should be fine for VHS capture. It also has fixed gain as opposed to automatic gain control which is very important. You can buy it used on eBay. There are other similar card with the same hardware. This one https://www.amazon.com/Tevion-High-S.../dp/B005EN56JS is precisely the same as ATI 600 USB. You have to use TBC with that card otherwise your video will be very wavy.
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  #15  
07-23-2018, 09:04 PM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior1s View Post
I wish in 2018 there were more better usb options. It seems like all the Pro choices are always cards that plug into a mother board. I have been reading all the info on the ATI 600usb on this website. Am I correct that this card is no longer being made? There is a whole lot of vhs tapes needing to be digitized, I am surprised at how little options there are for high end usb converters.
Yeah, Iíve been complaining about similar, but thereís no simple solution. Now I find myself shopping for components to build an xp box w agp slot. Canít fight reality...
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  #16  
07-23-2018, 09:09 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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You seem to already have TBC. So just get the USB card I pointed you to and you should be all set. As far as crippled chroma, as I said, I don’t think VHS have full chroma so you should be perfect.
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  #17  
07-23-2018, 09:26 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaleonid View Post
You seem to already have TBC. So just get the USB card I pointed you to and you should be all set. As far as crippled chroma, as I said, I don’t think VHS have full chroma so you should be perfect.
I dislike the term "crippled" when describing the ATI 600 USB. It's simply not as wide as some sources. The card was specifically intended for off-air or consumer analog tape formats (VHS and Video8/Hi8). It's sort of like calling a sports car crippled because it can't lug a U-Haul trailer. That's not what it was intended for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior1s View Post
I wish in 2018 there were more better usb options. It seems like all the Pro choices are always cards that plug into a mother board. I have been reading all the info on the ATI 600usb on this website. Am I correct that this card is no longer being made? There is a whole lot of vhs tapes needing to be digitized, I am surprised at how little options there are for high end usb converters.
You're late to the party. VHS was rapidly becoming a defunct format in the early 2000s, and digital conversion was a market-driven activity of the 2000s. That's when lots of good gear was made for that task. But the 2010s, it's used or nothing. Or new Chinese-made crap (Easycap aka Easycrap, etc). Or pay a service (and The Digital FAQ has that service). We're now just over a year away from the 2020s, and the process will get harder still as that decade progresses.

You're also mistaken that more USB should exist, and too many internal cards exist. USB has limitations, which is why that is the status quo. There are some good USB cards, but not many. Firewire has similar compromises -- more than USB, actually.

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  #18  
07-23-2018, 10:05 PM
Judd_the_budd Judd_the_budd is offline
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If you donít want to go the eBay route, lordSmurf still has a few ati 600 usb I think. I just bought 2 off him.

Worth the few extra bucks cause he gives you his home phone number and mobile number and takes calls 24/7 w each purchase.

Kidding about the last part, but he does seem to be helping on here 24/7.
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  #19  
07-23-2018, 10:36 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judd_the_budd View Post
Worth the few extra bucks cause he gives you his home phone number and mobile number and takes calls 24/7 w each purchase.
Kidding about the last part, but he does seem to be helping on here 24/7.
Oh dear lord, no.

But I do thoroughly test each piece, and it must pass my stringent tests. Not the eBay nonsense of "it turns on" or "I don't know how it works" or "untested" or "works great!" (and then doesn't). If it's not 99%+ to my expectations, I'm not selling it. Anything that needs refurb or repair is done as well, as is routine maintenance for VCRs. The bulk of this gear was mine from the beginning, not something random from a garage sale. Most eBay sellers these days are just recyclers, wanna-be "Storage Wars" types. It's almost completely devoid of anybody that truly knows about video. If you have the time and funds to gamble on eBay, have fun. But if you just want something that is guaranteed to work, I'm here.

I've seen quite a few USB cards that didn't work well, or at all, often thanks to members here sending them to me for inspection. And we get posts about it pretty regular around here. Some of my best tear-down gear (stuff I've dissected) came from eBay, usually via community members, always a used "working" or even new item that didn't actually work. Refunded, told to just trash it. So I gutted it for research. That, in turn, is one way I've been able to help so many members here. So at least their mistake of using eBay was worth something, even if it didn't net them anything usable.

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  #20  
07-24-2018, 07:00 AM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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I have a RetroTINK-2x on pre-order

http://www.retrotink.com/

Its basically a composite/s-video/component to HDMI adapter powered by a ADV7280 ADC. It can linedouble to 480p with bob-deinterlacing (progressive if the source is 240p, pretty much all computer sources and the JVC VCR blue menu) or used as a straight pass-thru. There is also a smoothing filter that can be disabled (don't care for the look from video game sources, but could be handy for select video sources). I'll be evaluating it for VHS capture work when it finally arrives and as a substitute for missing analog inputs on newer TVs.
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