Quantcast DMR-ES10 / ES15 passthrough TBC setup? - digitalFAQ Forum
Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
08-09-2018, 04:57 PM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Dear Digitalfaq Members,

Thanks to you I am very close to an acceptable 8mm PAL Tape Capture Workflow! My new equipment consist of a hi8 (pal) camcorder with tbc and svideo, an ES15 (pal) to use as a budget tbc alternative, an intel pentium 4 windows xp computer and an ati aiw 9000 pro (full set/ntsc).

Now that I have everything in place more or less, I wanted to ask what the best Passthrough Settings for the ES15 are?
I already know that I should try with and without the "comb filter" to see if the noise reduction helps or not.
But what other settings should I check in the DVD Recorder's Menu?
And whats the proper way to setup the passthrough? I would be very happy if somebody who owns an ES10/15 could walk me through that proccess!

Do I have to plug my Camcorder into the S-Video- and Audio - IN connection in the front panel, and connect my AIW and soundcard to the S-Video- and Audio - OUT connection on the units back side?
I am asking because I have heard something about using Line 1 for your camcorder but I dont have a clue which one of those is Line 1 and which one is 2..
I have attached some pictures of the es15 menu settings, maybe this helps to jog someones memory of what to change.
Thanks in advance!


Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
08-10-2018, 06:48 AM
house141 house141 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 15
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Panasonic DMR ES10 passthrough setup?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
08-10-2018, 07:46 AM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks house141, but I already know this thread and it left me with the questions that I posted here. How to hook up everything. Especially what is Line 1? And which settings to change in the menu and where to find them? If the comb filter is the dnr filter that should be checked and possibly deactivated etc etc.. Also this other thread has a typo and it says to plug the camcorder and the ati aiw both into the rear/back side of the recorder and that is not possible..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
08-10-2018, 08:54 AM
house141 house141 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 15
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Line 1 is accessed by using the remote in the on screen menus. Much like your INPUT selection on your TV when you switch from HDMI1 to HDMI2 etc. I have the remote for my unit so I am not sure if it can be accessed without a remote, but if you are buying a second hand ES10/15 I am assuming there is a decent chance the remote was not included.

DNR function is in the onscreen menus as well, I had no issue finding it with in a minute or two of looking around the menus. Mine was defaulted to off

From my best guess on your confusion, the above post suggests S-Video in on the back from the source whether it is a camcorder or a VCR and then S-Video out on the back to your capture device or next inline filtering device if you have one. I can see by all suggestions to leave the Vidicraft unit out of the mix if at all possible because it appears to be an inferior product that is only composite out. It would be best to stick with all S-video connections. Use the ATI600 software to do the same filtering functions as the Vidicraft unit performs.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank house141 for this useful post: SuperS (08-11-2018)
  #5  
08-10-2018, 10:11 AM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
hey thx for the quick reply.

you are totally right about the missing remote. but luckily i have a programmable universal remote and a list of codes for individual buttons of the original es15 remote. so I should be able to access everything with a little patience and fiddling around. that might also be a reason why i have a hard time with the setup.
when line1=av1 then i guess i have indeed found this setting yesterday. I was also able to connect the camcorder to the es15 (front panel) and the tv to the es15(back panel) and could watch one of my tapes successfully.

would you be willing to check my attached pictures from the first post to tell me if the comb filter is this dnr function that should be turned off? because the comb filter is on by default for me. and maybe if any other setting needs changing..

ok so if i get you right you say to plug the camcorder into the backside of the es15 (video out) and the aiw capture card also into the backside of the es15?
there is only one svideo on the backside (svideo out), the other one is on the front side (svideo in). That's what also confused me about the other thread.. I am sure I just misunderstood something but I cannot get my head around this.
thx in advance
Reply With Quote
  #6  
08-10-2018, 11:42 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,477
Thanked 1,392 Times in 1,224 Posts
I refuse to refer to what the ES10/15 does as "TBC", because it's not. I use the term TBC(ish). There are corrective functions that it fails at, and there are side effects that normal TBCs do not have. I always feel the need to state that, so nobody gets the wrong idea on what it is or is not, can or cannot do. Sometimes it can act as stand-in for TBC, especially when paired in certain configuration, but it's not a true TBC as-is.

Universal remotes rarely have the mapping to all buttons. You really need OEMs remotes for JVC S-VHS VCRs, ES10/15, and similar hardware that had remotes. You're just making it harder on yourself.

And it's not unheard of for a "working" unit (from eBay, especially) to have a non-working s-video output. Everything else seems to work, just not the s-video. Beware of defective units, especially "working" units from "no returns" or "as is" sellers. Remember, with eBay, you're not buying, you're gambling in an online flea market.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank lordsmurf for this useful post: Kazuya (12-30-2018)
  #7  
08-10-2018, 12:14 PM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
yeah i agree that its only tbc-ish, but from what I have heard its good enough for me and i really have to go the budget route because of financial reasons.. i have attached a picture of all the codes the remote manufacturer send me that are compatible woth the device. so i have quite a few buttons to choose from. i will buy an oem remote, but only if these codes fail me, for now it looks good. like i said i was able to access the video and display settings and i could change to input av1. from what i have gathered thats all i need to do right? my main confusion is where to plug in what device (into the es15) and what are the recommended settings (in the es15) to adjust before capturing

(attached screenshot)

-- merged --

Just a quick follow up.

A few days ago I found out that the European versions of the ES10/15 don't have as many S-Video connections as the NTSC versions. They just have a front and a back one and lots of scart connections. Thats why I got so confused where to plug in the Camcorder and which Line I have to select..
Also the Universal Remote from "ONE FOR All" is doing an excellent job! After contacting the Service Hotline they gave me this list containing all the missing buttons. I was able to program them in very easily.
After that I was able to access every setting and find everything you guys were talking about!
I can recommend those superb Universal Remotes to everyone who doesn't own an OEM one.

So what I am doing now is to connect the Camcorder into the front S-Video In and the Capture Card into the back S-Video Out (the only 2 S-Video connections I have). Then I select AV3 on the Remote (AV1 alias Line1 would be one of the SCART connections in my case), turn off the DNR thing, turn off progressive (not sure about that one), select L+R Audio, and turn the Comb Filter ON (also not 100% sure about that). I am pretty sure I am getting time based correction with this setup because the tape plays almost perfectly for the first time in many years!

Thanks guys for helping me on my path of piecing everything together! I will post a new thread with samples as soon as the post office brings me my new/old Pentium 4 with an AGP Slot for my All-In-Wonder 9000pro.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot_2018-08-10-19-05-38.jpg (226.1 KB, 42 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
08-19-2018, 10:03 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 65
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
One thing you should know. On german videoforum they had found out that all analog outputs from the first generation Panasonic DMRs here in Germany have problems with brightness variation. Excepts the AV1-Scart connector.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
08-19-2018, 10:16 AM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
One thing you should know. On german videoforum they had found out that all analog outputs from the first generation Panasonic DMRs here in Germany have problems with brightness variation. Excepts the AV1-Scart connector.
Hi Bogilein, Yes I have also read that somewhere! But I guess I have to accept this, because converting S-Video to Scart will also result in quality loss if I am not mistaken
Would you recommend using scart AV1 over using S-Video AV3?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
08-19-2018, 10:24 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 65
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
There is no quality loos, because the scart conector can both. Composite and s-video. You only need a scart conector like these one:

https://www.amazon.de/Nanocable-10-2...scart+conector

or

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B000K86Y7U/...534692314&sr=2

or something like these

https://www.amazon.de/Premium-Scart-...ds=scart+s-vhs

or any other.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
08-19-2018, 10:35 AM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
There is no quality loos, because the scart conector can both. Composite and s-video. You only need a scart conector like these one:

or any other.
Thank you very much Bogilein! I will consider that.

The only thing that holds me back is that I am pretty sure I came across a post on videohelp (I think even from Lordsmurf!) that stated that scart is one of the worst connections ever, or sth along these lines..
Are you 100% sure about the quality loss?

If maybe a seasoned user here or lordsmurf himself could explain and tell me if scart or a slightly increased brightness is the lesser of two evils I would be very grateful!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
08-19-2018, 11:37 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 65
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

You could buy good scart connectors and bad ones but you could buy good S-Vhs cables and bad ones,too.

Scart is european standard.

Here is a scart connector from ebay which should not be to bad.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/141195348101...84.m1439.l2649
Reply With Quote
  #13  
08-19-2018, 11:39 AM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
thank you bogilein! I am willing to try this because those adapters are not too expensive anyway. I sent you a PM some minutes ago
Reply With Quote
  #14  
08-20-2018, 07:11 AM
spanak spanak is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Blugaria
Posts: 23
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperS View Post
Just a quick follow up...

So what I am doing now is to connect the Camcorder into the front S-Video In and the Capture Card into the back S-Video Out (the only 2 S-Video connections I have). Then I select AV3 on the Remote (AV1 alias Line1 would be one of the SCART connections in my case), turn off the DNR thing, turn off progressive (not sure about that one), select L+R Audio, and turn the Comb Filter ON (also not 100% sure about that)...
I've been having the same problem with my ES-10. Where is the DNR setting? I could not find it neither under "Picture", nor under "Display".
Reply With Quote
  #15  
08-20-2018, 07:17 AM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
i am not at home for a few days atm, but if i remember correctly you have to go to your desired AV channel and then press the functions key (could also be any other settings key, i am not sure) and there it is
Reply With Quote
  #16  
08-20-2018, 12:06 PM
jnielsen jnielsen is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 44
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
If you have a hi8 (pal) camcorder with tbc and svideo why use the ES15? I use the ES10/15 only for problem tapes like 2. generation VHS tapes. Pal Hi 8 tapes are often in good shape and the built in TBC in the camcorder is usually not so bad. Maybe you can do a test with and without the ES15.

You do not need to bother about the choosing the right "Line". If you have the video picture on the computer you have chosen the right input AV channel. You can choose AV channel on the front of ES10/ES15 without remote.

Last edited by jnielsen; 08-20-2018 at 12:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
08-20-2018, 02:51 PM
SuperS SuperS is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 22
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
i was having highly instable and broken video with my old camcorder and the advice here was to use a camcorder with internal tbc + an external tbc or at least a tbc(ish) standin like the es10/15. thats the advice i am working with, but now that you made me curious i will also test without the es15 once to see the comparison!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
09-15-2018, 05:21 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,477
Thanked 1,392 Times in 1,224 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnielsen View Post
If you have a hi8 (pal) camcorder with tbc and svideo why use the ES15?
Hi8 cameras, even with TBC, are notorious for dropped frames. And the reason is that the TBC does not have a frame sync, it does visual improvements. The ES10/15 is what I call "TBC(ish)", as it blends a few properties from TBC and frame sync both, yet without being a frame sync TBC. The ES10/15 will essentially remove all dropped frames on this source. Of course, you also have to deal with the downsides of that hardware, as it's not transparent (mostly adding posterization, mouse trails, etc). So a full fledged external TBC is best.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank lordsmurf for this useful post: Kazuya (12-30-2018)
  #19  
09-15-2018, 12:18 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Netherlands,
Posts: 193
Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Does the ES10/15 have component outputs ? the ES35V has, and are not only for the optical drive the ES35V has
progressive is only meant for component, but with me the FL otion is greyed out, what function does FL has ?
edit> oops, sorry, i see now... must be fluoricent display, on the recorder itself..... how important not, duh....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnielsen View Post
If you have a hi8 (pal) camcorder with tbc and svideo why use the ES15? I use the ES10/15 only for problem tapes like 2. generation VHS tapes. Pal Hi 8 tapes are often in good shape and the built in TBC in the camcorder is usually not so bad. Maybe you can do a test with and without the ES15.

You do not need to bother about the choosing the right "Line". If you have the video picture on the computer you have chosen the right input AV channel. You can choose AV channel on the front of ES10/ES15 without remote.
You can switch in the VCR OSD menus what the input should be able to read... setting rgb on a output will block grey out a (yuv) progressive option.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
09-16-2018, 08:27 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,477
Thanked 1,392 Times in 1,224 Posts
ES15 has RGB component, but it's still SD.
ES10 probably does as well, but I can't look at the back of it right now.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank lordsmurf for this useful post: BPHusker (02-06-2019)
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question on Panasonic DMR-ES15 (EU-PAL) U-max Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 4 08-19-2018 05:58 PM
Wanted: Panasonic ES10/ES15 dinkleberg Marketplace 2 05-16-2018 05:05 PM
Panasonic DMR ES10 passthrough setup? qiko Capture, Record, Transfer 3 04-29-2018 06:00 AM
Does the Panasonic ES15 passthrough both NTSC and PAL? retartedted Capture, Record, Transfer 1 04-12-2017 08:45 PM
Using Panasonic ES10 DVD as a Passthrough RABinMS Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 7 07-20-2014 06:50 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 PM