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  #1  
09-19-2018, 06:04 AM
Cyclone82 Cyclone82 is offline
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Hi , I am considering buying a Matrox MXO2 mini or maybe one of their other models?
Will it be possible to connect this to my Windows 10 lap top if i only have USB and Thunderbolt input? I will be getting a new computer and i don't think it will have an express card slot. Is it possible to add one externally and connect it via USB3 or Thunderbolt?

Will the Matrox work with Windows 10?

I see there is a Matrox MX02 that comes with Thunderbolt adaptor. Will this work with Windows system or is it only for Thunderbolt on MAC systems?

Thanks for your help
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  #2  
09-19-2018, 06:06 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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To capture what?
What is the source, the workflow?

If from VHS/analog, I'd prefer to opt for USB capture carsd, and go lossless.

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  #3  
09-19-2018, 06:23 AM
Cyclone82 Cyclone82 is offline
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To capture VHS
I was looking at the recommended devices here
Best ATI All In Wonder card alternatives, to transfer tapes to digital?

Getting hard to find DVD recorders now, particularly with S-video input so i thought i should invest in a decent PC capturing device.

Specs are saying Windows 7 and 8 64 bit so i am thinking Windows 10 64bit should be ok too?

All the info i am seeing is that Thunderbolt is for Mac connection.

I have asked the laptop manufacturer is there is a PCIe express card slot in what i am looking at getting. I dont think there is. I do know it has a a USB3.0/Thunderbolt combo port so maybe that would work?

I/O ports
1 HDMI 2.0 output Port (with HDCP)
2 Mini DisplayPort 1.3 output Ports
4 USB 3.0 Ports (USB 3.1 Gen 1) (1 x powered USB port, AC/DC)
1 USB 3.1 Gen2 port (Type-C) 1 Thunderbolt 3 / USB 3.1 Gen 2 combo Port (Type-C)
1 Headphone Jack
1 Microphone Jack
1 Line-in Jack
1 S/PDIF output Jack
1 RJ-45 LAN (10/100/1000Mbps)

Slots
6-in-1 Card Reader (MMC/RSMMC/SD/Mini-SD/SDHC/SDXC)
Three M.2 Card Slots
- 1st for WLAN Combo M.2 2230 Card with PCIe and USB interface
- 2nd for SSD M.2 2280 Card with SATA / PCIe Gen3 x2/x4 interface
- 3rd for SSD M.2 2280 Card with SATA / PCIe Gen3 x2/x4 interface

Last edited by Cyclone82; 09-19-2018 at 06:37 AM.
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  #4  
09-19-2018, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post
Getting hard to find DVD recorders now, particularly with S-video input so i thought i should invest in a decent PC capturing device.
Yes, it can be. I actually have a good LSI JVC that I'd part with for the right/fair price.

Quote:
Specs are saying Windows 7 and 8 64 bit so i am thinking Windows 10 64bit should be ok too?
Maybe. With 8 supported ... maybe.

Quote:
All the info i am seeing is that Thunderbolt is for Mac connection.
Pretty much, yep.

Quote:
I/O ports
4 USB 3.0 Ports (USB 3.1 Gen 1) (1 x powered USB port, AC/DC)
USB is all you need for lossless capturing.

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  #5  
09-19-2018, 07:03 AM
Cyclone82 Cyclone82 is offline
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So although the computer has Thunderbolt input, the Matrox Thunderbolt adapter may still not work?
Anybody using a Matrox with Win 10 64bit?
Might be a little risky to get one until i can get confirmation on Matrox +Windows 10 is Ok and if i am going to even have a way to be able to connect it to my computer.

What are the lossless USB capture devices you suggest?

I am not interested in a cheap $20-50 ebay/amazon dongle with a couple leads hanging out it. I tried one of those 'Easy cap' devices years ago and it did not work.

I was going to get a Canopus ADV device but then read they are not that great plus they are NLA anyway. My other thought was Black Magic Shuttle, but then i read they are crap too. So i am running out of options???

Thankyou
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  #6  
09-19-2018, 07:47 AM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post
So although the computer has Thunderbolt input, the Matrox Thunderbolt adapter may still not work?
Unless something has changed since this forum post, it doesn't look like it is supported on windows.

There are external boxes that let you connect pci express cards via thunderbolt (expensive) or the m.2 slots (may be tricky or clunky depending on where the slots are and you will have cable hanging out of the computer), but I'm not sure if it's really a good option.
https://egpu.io/external-gpu-buyers-guide-2018/

Expresscard slots are not common on modern laptops.

The Canopus devices connect via firewire (which modern computers don't come with as standard), and use lossy compression that affects the image quality.

The main issue with the blackmagic device is that they are extremely sensitive to bad signals, which you will get with VHS recordings.

Quote:
Yes, it can be. I actually have a good LSI JVC that I'd part with for the right/fair price.
With one of these you could also capture lossless via the HDMI out if it has it with e.g a blackmagic card or something cheaper, an option I've been exploring lately. The LSI recorders have excellent analog decoders.
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  #7  
09-20-2018, 03:52 AM
Cyclone82 Cyclone82 is offline
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Well i had it confirmed that the computer does not have PCIe express card slot.
So what are the good options for PC capturing these days or more specifically 'USB lossless capturing'? I have nt hear that term used at all until yesterday.

I just read the Matrox forum thread link above. That is not good for me but at least i have not bought a Matrox yet so this at least has been helpful info and goes to show it pays to research first.

So should i start a new thread on lossless capture and what the best lossless capture devices are available for a modern windows 10 PC?
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  #8  
09-20-2018, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post
So although the computer has Thunderbolt input, the Matrox Thunderbolt adapter may still not work?
It's about drivers. And I don't think any Thunderbolt drivers for Windows exists for that card. Thunderbolt is mostly a Mac interface, and Windows mostly has it for cross platform hard drive usage. At least for now, from what I've seen.

Quote:
Anybody using a Matrox with Win 10 64bit?
I think the bigger is "is anybody using Win 10" for video. And that answer is almost always a resounding "no!" because of how bad the OS fights video hardware and software both. WinXP was the peak of analog>digital, Vista messed it up some, and then Win7 re-stabilized it some. Then came 8 and 10, which tried to murder most video workflows.

Quote:
What are the lossless USB capture devices you suggest?
ATI 600 USB, or clones, or some specific Pinnacle cards.
Some at the site also like VC500, but I do not. I've seen too much weird stuff (AGC, levels).

Quote:
I am not interested in a cheap $20-50 ebay/amazon dongle with a couple leads hanging out it. I tried one of those 'Easy cap' devices years ago and it did not work.
Nor should you. Easycap is known as "easycrap" for a reason!

Quote:
I was going to get a Canopus ADV device but then read they are not that great plus they are NLA anyway. My other thought was Black Magic Shuttle, but then i read they are crap too. So i am running out of options???
It seems you're up to speed then. That's the situation we all find ourselves in. The best hardware is all legacy (older OS often required), used/preowned, NOS (new old stock) at best if lucky, and nothing new/good exists. All the HD era hardware has SD as a poorly-functioning afterthought, Blackmagic especially. Quite a bit also requires a desktops for PCIe/AGP/PCI interface. For laptops, it's USB or bust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post
So should i start a new thread on lossless capture and what the best lossless capture devices are available for a modern windows 10 PC?
You can. It may be best. If you do, drop a reply here referring to the new thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post
So what are the good options for PC capturing these days
"These days" insinuates "sold new in stores", but I must reiterate that this is not the case.

Quote:
or more specifically 'USB lossless capturing'? I have nt hear that term used at all until yesterday.
Well, the exact phrase "USB lossless capturing" isn't really a term of any kind. "Lossless capturing" is a term, and it just refers to USB cards that can do it. Yes, that does include crappy cards from the likes of Easycap, but also refers to respected cards like the ATI 600 USB and clones, certain Pinnacles, and some others. It's mostly about the capture chipsets in use.

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  #9  
09-20-2018, 07:29 AM
Cyclone82 Cyclone82 is offline
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Thanks. That answers a few things. I guess there may be the option of installing an older OS on a current hi tech computer. It is not looking like good news for me. Review on Amazon for the http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/produ..._usblive2.html seem ok for Win 10 users. I got some stuff to think about for a bit now.
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  #10  
09-20-2018, 04:31 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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If you want a quality captures you need quality hardware, I have no problems with the Intensity Shuttle, i have a Panasonic DVR/VHS combo, DMR ES35V and a JVC HR-S8960 both give rocksteady captures, and have 13" MacBookPro laptop early 2015 model, from the Panny i can capture component progressive with exellent picture quality.
The Intensity Shuttle USB you should avoid, because only a selective usb chipset will work with it, as stated on BMD's website.
The early 2015 macbookpro has Thunderbolt 2 which is a perfect match for the Intensity Shuttle with this interface,
Davinci Resolve runs also reasonable on my mac, Media Express is a great capture app. a good choice of codecs to capture with.
Video capture should be done with good hardware and a stable OS, Apple OS has a UNIX core.
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  #11  
09-20-2018, 05:15 PM
Cyclone82 Cyclone82 is offline
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I dont have a MAC and have no intentions of owning one, but if it works with USB or Thunderbolf and Windows 10 then maybe i can slot it back into my small list of possibilities.
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  #12  
09-20-2018, 06:19 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I wouldn't worry about Mac for VHS work. Every VHS capture I've ever seen from Mac users, including Youtube extravaganzas, looks like defect-ridden, noisy, cooked-color VHS with poor signal level control and obvious compression artifacts ggenerated by unfiltered tape nosie. It never looks like a digital transfer, it just looks like average quality unrefined VHS playing thru a computer monitor. No wonder. Mac has zero means for improving VHS captures except for some expensive color correction software. There are rare exceptions, but those guys aren't using Macs and shop gear that you and I can't afford without taking out a second mortgage. Don't think you're missing anything.
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  #13  
09-21-2018, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
If you want a quality captures you need quality hardware, I have no problems with the Intensity Shuttle, i have a Panasonic DVR/VHS combo, DMR ES35V and a JVC HR-S8960 both give rocksteady captures
You keep saying this, but as I've pointed out in another thread, you're getting blended deinterlace captures from this setup, based on the samples you've posted to Youtube. It's a serious quality defect.

(There's a slight chance your source NTSC>PAL TV broadcast was actually blended deinterlace, but it's less likely.)

That is not how captures should look.

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  #14  
09-21-2018, 03:02 AM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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There are some computer graphics in that scene too, you could be right there, i will look for some other VHS source material,
also with some fast movements in it, and will also use it in interlaced, and then compair with de-interlaced on the pc,
I like the progressive output from the VCR,(it also defeats Macrovision) because de-interlacing with Davinci is a paid option, in the Studio version,
the de-interlacing i have to do with Handbrake, or MacX Video Converter pro, Davinci has some easy to set resolution options.
Shotcut is also nice, but is a bit unpredictable, or i just "don't get it yet" i bought Movavi Video Editor plus online, which is easy to use, and has some nice effects, for transisions and texts, Hybrid is just too flakey.

But, if i hear people say, that the Intensity Shuttle isn't any good, i think that isn't fair to say, because for me it works, without external TBC, i think that says a lot for the Intensity Shuttle, maybe just luck, but it saves me from a lot of troubles.

btw. Cyclone82, the Thunderbolt "story" is....Thunderbolt 2 is used on old Mac's Thunderbolt 3 is used on the newer Mac's but is also known as USB-C.
using "normal" USB is sometimes tricky anyware, you need to watch out for if it is USB 2.0, 3.0 or 3.1 the difference might be that it just won't work, pay extra attention to this, or search for people's experience "cases"

edit> I just looked into the Matrox MX02, there are different versions, one that needs a PCI card in a pc, it really is a Pro device but mainly for MAC users, so using it differently would give problems, is my guess, i see this box/device has also component inputs, but being a pro device it is strange that it can't be hardware controlled externaly, if you want to go for this one, you should also go for a MAC system and be sure you can interface with the matrox, it is allready an old device what i found of it, looks like a quality device though, but not for use with Windows

The Matrox MXO2 mini has no composite or s-video input.
This feature you should have noticed at the 1st place
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  #15  
09-24-2018, 12:39 PM
U-max U-max is offline
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Matrox MXO2 Mini has got both composite and S-video inputs as shown in the attached picture.

I'm using a PCI-E version of the card in Windows 10 64 bit environment with no problems.

Cheers.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg matrox_mxo2_thunderbolt_stone_38.jpg (50.9 KB, 26 downloads)
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  #16  
09-24-2018, 01:44 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Sorry, yes, i saw this later, but could not correct my post anymore, the s-video and composite connections are shared RCA ones, i now uderstand, this Matrox MX02 looks like a good one, also because of the component input connection(s)
I just did some capture tests with s-video and component, s-video looks smeared compaired to component connection, when i capture from my vcr, component looks crisper, when captured with the Intensity Shuttle. Composite must be even worse i guess, so being able to capture over component connections is a big advantage, component,was added on these models for connecting the upcoming flatsscreens, so not just for devices/machines with an optical drive in it, which i first thought.
You can switch the component output to progressive, when you capture also in progressive, macroVision has no effect anymore on the AGC or sync, i discovered with my vhs/dvd combo machine.
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  #17  
09-24-2018, 02:20 PM
U-max U-max is offline
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Yes sir, even though I would prefer capturing in interlaced mode for a whole range of reasons. In conjuction with my Pana DMR-ES15 as TBC-like passthrough, it gives me great results with all analog sources (component in/out). I've just disabled the comb filter due to noisy coloured dots on video.
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  #18  
09-24-2018, 03:21 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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On my vcr/dvd combo i have comb on, but i will do also some tests without it,
What i now don't understand is, when i set it on PAL interlaced, and i set my capture device on interlaced 50fps
the frame rate of the file says 25 fps when i set all to 50 fps progressive the file is 50 fps, so... the capture setting in the capture software is allways 50fps, but the outcome in interlaced is 25fps.
i know interlaced is : one frame is two fields, why isn't it the other way round ? i can't wrap my mind around this..... what's the explanation for this ? i'm missing the point right now.
(i guess you're thinking of doing de-interlacing by software gives a better result, in realtime(hardware there's less refinement i guess)
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  #19  
09-24-2018, 04:29 PM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U-max View Post
Matrox MXO2 Mini has got both composite and S-video inputs as shown in the attached picture.
Do you know anything about what A/D converter chip it uses?
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  #20  
09-24-2018, 05:09 PM
U-max U-max is offline
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ADV7181C maybe?
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