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  #21  
10-19-2018, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
But we shouldn't forget one thing, that not every recorder plays every tape well.
Yep, so very true.

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My favourite I had said this before is the Hitachi 390.
Specifically, do you mean that Hitachi S390E S-VHS VCR?
Does it have an NTSC equivalent?
Line TBC?

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  #22  
10-21-2018, 12:28 PM
Fr4gz0n3 Fr4gz0n3 is offline
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The good news is that I've no longer issues of any kind at machine start, also after the unit was left unplugged for few hours. I don't know if the previous behavior is normal when a unit is not used for long time.

Today I've removed the bottom panel of the VCR to inspect the toothed belts that are actually in very good conditions (very elastic). I also inspect the boards as much as possible without disassembling all the VCR and I cannot see any visible damage or problem.

I've also notice that all the moving parts (both plastic and metal) have good grease applied so I guess some maintenance was done not too far ago. The thrift shop dealer said that the guy who brought him the AG-4700 was a (former?) employee of the Italian national broadcasting company (RAI) that was dismissing old equipment. I don't know if the story is true and of course I don't know if the VCR was a business or private unit. It's true that Turin (where I live, in north-west of Italy) was the first RAI headquarter when it was just a radio broadcaster and today there are still: a production center, a research center (CRIT) and a research and restoration center for the audio/video archive (TECHE RAI) that uses hundred of machines to digitalize the analogic material.
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  #23  
10-22-2018, 02:10 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
It can't be raw. The false sharpen halos give it away. You cannot easily "unhalo" an image to arrive at the JVC image. Panasonic is known to process an image, even with everything "turned off", as is the case on the ES10/15 recorders, and apparently this unit as well.

At very most, if it is supposed to be a raw "as recorded on tape" image, then the noise and artifacts in the image must be from a fault somewhere.

Panasonic gear is extremely good at what it does, reason I have so much of it, but don't tell yourself that it's somehow better/truer to what JVC gear products. It's not. It can be bad, it can be good, it can be neither. But above all, it's just different. JVC and Panasonic are also not the only two companies that differ in their approach to playback and processing.
Just slept to nights over the answer from Lord Smurf.
Maybe I haven't find the right words and there is some missunderstood of what i have written.

In passive mode the output from the Panasonic AG is the raw picture as the Panasonic can give it out. Without any improvments. The blur/sharpness slider has no function.

If AI (Analysis Intelligenz) is on the recorder tries to find the best compromise between sharpness and grain for the tape. This works during playback and recording. The sharpnes/blur slider has no function too if it is on.
If you caompare the output from player/recorder mode and the blur/Sharpness slider is in center position you will not see a big difference.

But only in passive mode with Ai off it's the true output without any improvments from the panasonic AG4700/HS1000.

But remember every recorder have there own properties, that's why true/good professionals have a few different recorders (I'm not a professional but have 10 SVHS/VHS recorders). For example the output from the Panasonic FS200 in edit mode is diffferent and it will be diffferent with a JVC or any other too. Some increase chroma, luma, colour shift 1 or 2 lines or other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post

Specifically, do you mean that Hitachi S390E S-VHS VCR?
Does it have an NTSC equivalent?
Line TBC?
Yes, that's my favourite. He has no TBC but an edit mode.

In most cases I use the canopus nx to capture. If the jitter correction isn't good enough from the canopus I use a dvd recorder in passthrough mode with the canopus or an dvd recorder with HDMI Output in passthrough mode to the HDMI Input of the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle. Before someone say that's not recommended hardware. I live in PAL country and what I have read here and on other forums some hardware works better with NTSC and some with PAL. (For example I have an external TBC and 2 ATI cards a 7200 and a 9000,too).

I have found a video on youtube and the Hitachi VT-S772A looks quite similar with the pal version. He has the "magic" door opener too.

One thing I have forgotten to say. The player is only the first device in the capture chain. If the capture card produce errors (for example clipping, audio out of sync, moire or any other things....) the best recorder in the world couldn't help.
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  #24  
10-22-2018, 05:40 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Do you know what A/D converter chip the canopus nx card uses? From what I've seen the older canopus DV boxes used a Philips/NXP SAA7114H chip, though it seems that chip would be a bit outdated when the nx cards were released.
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  #25  
10-22-2018, 05:25 PM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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You might know that 2 version of the card exist. For the PCI-X bus and PCI Express. I have both cards but the PCI Express card is in use so have I disassembled the PCI-X card but I think both have the same chips.

I couldn't find any Philips chip on the board. It looks like that it use a NEC chip. But have yourself a closer look at the pictures.


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File Type: jpg Canopus22.jpg (86.0 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: jpg Canopus33.jpg (88.9 KB, 4 downloads)
File Type: jpg Canopus44.jpg (107.7 KB, 2 downloads)
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  #26  
10-22-2018, 05:59 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Ah, looks like there's an Analog Devices chip, can't spot which model though, that would explain it's ability to correct some jitter. Blackmagic intensity and Aja Kona also use ADV chips.
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  #27  
10-24-2018, 08:16 AM
Fr4gz0n3 Fr4gz0n3 is offline
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Yesterday I inspected the AG-4700 better, looking for issues or bad electrolytic SMD capacitors.

I have to admit that it has been a quite scary experience, because the mainboard is heavy, full of small boards welded and "thousands" of wires (some very short) pulling in each direction.

2018-10-23_14-15-21_632.jpeg

I had to take out the TBC, the front panel, the display board and the VITC board before I was able to remove the mainboard (it has been a pain).

Starting from the TBC everything seems fine and there are no SMD capacitors.

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Regarding the mainboard I also could not spot any electrolytic SMD capacitors on the other boards (the Y/C board was hard to inspect) and I think this is the reason why the deck is still working.

Unfortunately I could not take any photo of the other boards because my hands were busy at holding the mainboard and I didn't want to unplug all the wires and cables and put all together back again.

Surprisingly this morning the AIW 9600 arrived. I have not installed the board yet but I can confirm it's brand new.


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  #28  
10-27-2018, 07:23 PM
juhok juhok is offline
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AG-4700 is HS-1000 with different color and higher price tag. Same video head, same mech. From my memory, all the PCBs look the same.
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  #29  
10-29-2018, 05:48 AM
Fr4gz0n3 Fr4gz0n3 is offline
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I know that AG-4700 and HS-1000 are the same machine. I was just saying that maybe these boards are a bit more reliable compared to other panasonic VCRs such as the AG-1980 (full of SMD caps)
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  #30  
10-29-2018, 08:53 AM
juhok juhok is offline
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This is not statistically significant, but.. I had maybe 3-4 FS200(AG-1980) and half a dozen HS1000 or clones. A couple of FS200 had the cap/psu problems atleast, no problems with HS1000 in that area. HS1000 is also more recent so it has that advantage.
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  #31  
10-31-2018, 04:57 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juhok View Post
AG-4700 is HS-1000 with different color and higher price tag. Same video head, same mech. From my memory, all the PCBs look the same.
I just read in a video magazine the difference should be a more thicker capstan a different better head drum.

On a spare parts list the Panasonic HS-1000 head drum has number E-378 and the the head drum for the AG4700 number E-347.
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  #32  
10-31-2018, 06:38 AM
Quasipal Quasipal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
I just read in a video magazine the difference should be a more thicker capstan a different better head drum.

On a spare parts list the Panasonic HS-1000 head drum has number E-378 and the the head drum for the AG4700 number E-347.
The industrial capstans are blue colour - easy to spot the upgrade, and the head has the part number stamped on it so you can verify that too.

The blue capstans are hardened but not chromed, which resists erosion, polishing and slip after 1000's of hours use.
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  #33  
10-31-2018, 08:27 AM
juhok juhok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
I just read in a video magazine the difference should be a more thicker capstan a different better head drum.

On a spare parts list the Panasonic HS-1000 head drum has number E-378 and the the head drum for the AG4700 number E-347.
Which list is this? In the service manual I haven't seen either of these codes. In the earlier picture of AG4700 you can see VEH0651 which is also HS1000 drum (there is another compatible upper drum model too but can't remember the part no. right now)
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  #34  
10-31-2018, 12:04 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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The NV-HS1000 we got here has the same VEH0651 upper drum.
Maybe there is some variation between different versions of the same model, in this thread there is a picture of one that looks markedly different. There does seem to be a few sub-versions of both the NV-HS1000 and the AG-4700. The differences are probably mostly related to tuners and with/without NICAM but I guess there could be more. There's also a similar NV-HS800 that seems to lack some features like the TBC.


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  #35  
10-31-2018, 12:19 PM
juhok juhok is offline
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I've changed the drum versions between HS1000's and they work fine without any adjustments. IIRC HS-950 has same upper drum also and you could get them for 50€ in good condition, when new drum as spare part cost like 300€.
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  #36  
10-31-2018, 12:37 PM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juhok View Post
Which list is this? In the service manual I haven't seen either of these codes. In the earlier picture of AG4700 you can see VEH0651 which is also HS1000 drum (there is another compatible upper drum model too but can't remember the part no. right now)
On this spare part list:

http://www.gummimeyer.de/Audio%20Vid...rsatzteile.pdf

Maybe it's only the order number because my HS1000 has the number VEH0651,too.


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  #37  
11-02-2018, 01:58 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
Maybe there is some variation between different versions of the same model
That doesn't surprise me at all. The AG-1980O was the same way. Some Panasonic models had a long shelf life, and production changes midway is common in every industry. Sometimes the change is good or transparent, sometimes bad (as we saw with the post-2010 AVT-8710).

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