RetroTINK-2X as alternative capture device for VHS?
For more information, including pricing and resellers, see the official website: http://www.retrotink.com/
When I first saw the RetroTINK-2X become available, I saw some potential in the device to possibly replace existing analog capture solutions. HDMI capture solutions have come down in cost and have become commonplace in recent years. Also, classic analog inputs (particularly S-Video) are rapidly vanishing from new TVs. Anyway, here are my initial findings with this little box. Testing setup: -JVC HR-S7800U SVHS VCR -AV Toolbox AVT-8710 TBC -AVerMedia HD DVR PCIe HDMI capture card -Various cables -S-Video and audio are connected to the RetroTINK. Output mode is set to "pass thru". My first test with the device was to see if I could get away with not needing any TBC at all in the capture chain. The short answer is NO, you definitely need an external full frame TBC. Tape glitches will cause both video and audio dropouts (assuming you are using the RetroTINK's audio inputs and not a soundcard). Keeping video and audio synchronized even with these dropouts isn't a problem though as the RetroTINK's HDMI output seems to remain active at all times to keep the capture card happy (you won't see frame drops in your capture program). Once I added the AVT-8710 into the capture workflow, both video and audio output from the RetroTINK became stable. I have not done objective tests on video quality (test patterns, etc.), but the device seems to be on par with the ATI 600 and the AIW cards that I have. The ADC has a 5-line adaptive 2D comb filter on the composite input. One downside is that one cannot adjust picture controls like hue, color, brightness, and contrast (HDMI capture devices won't let you adjust this either). You will need a video processor to control that. One good thing is the input video (at least from my test tapes) appears to not have crushed blacks or whites. The histogram in VirtualDUB shows very little video above 240 and below 16. The ADC captures in 4:2:2 YUY. Also, I have not tested capture with the 2x line doubler enabled. With 480i interlaced video, this applies a bob de-interlace to sources when converting them to 480p, something I wanted to avoid. There is also a video smoothing filter, but this requires the 2x line doubler to be enabled. I am also unable to test PAL and SECAM capture as I don't have any video sources that output those formats. So should you get one for VHS capture? Maybe....I can't recommend it until I do further testing. If you plan on using it to add composite and S-Video to a new TV, it makes a fine addition. It also works well with its target market of video game consoles, but do try to avoid composite video output. If you console supports S-Video and component, use that instead. Also keep in mind that the device only supports 240p/288p and 480i/576i video. 480p progressive video is not supported at all on the component input (for that get an OSSC). |
Quick addendum: The RetroTINK-2X is not immune to Macrovision. Playing back tapes with Macrovision causes random video dropouts, further enforcing the need for an external TBC.
|
Hi,
Sorry for updating an old thread, but this is exactly what I'm looking at doing and you're the only one that mentioned it on this forum. Did you ever get any further with your testing on this? RetroTINK-2X clones are popping up now. Just wondering if a 'S-VHS -> TBC -> RetroTINK-2X -> HDMI record' might be a feasible workflow. I've multiple Samsung TVs here that constantly screw up showing broadcast interlaced content, so I'd be encoding in progressive anyway. |
You need a full frame TBC to capture with it, otherwise there will be frame drops. You can directly capture 480i video with it, I would not use the bob deinterlacer (do it in software). I can't vouch for any clone devices as they can be a crap shot in terms of quality (think EZCap clones).
|
Quote:
|
This device was made for playing old console video games. And it's best left to that purpose. Using it for video capture isn't at all suggested. It was not designed for the purpose, and it shows.
Deinterlacing will be atrocious, even bested by an outdated software method, and far behind quality of current methods like QTGMC. Do not do this. You'll make your videos worse than the original tapes. |
I'm not a big fan of capturing from HDMI for the purpose of VHS but if you must there are better and more stable alternatives out there such as the KEY DIGITAL KD-VP8 and Gefen CI GTV-COMPSVID-2-HDMIS just to name few, They were designed at the hay day of analog video so they have some sort of frame buffer/TBCish. Again I'm not suggesting to capture that way, I used both the above devices for display purposes and they are amazing.
|
Cheers for the input as always LordSmurf!
latreche34: I really like the look of the "Gefen CI GTV-COMPSVID-2-HDMIS". Especially since it can be got at a reasonable price in the US. Unfortunately the cost will double if I try and import it. You don't happen to know of a similar unit that was more prevalent in Europe/UK? |
I listed those two that I personally used and sold them about a year or so ago due to non use, Just check UK websites and type in keywords such as "composite HDMI", "S-Video HDMI", "analog HDMI" ....etc. eBay lets you save a search and notify you by e-mail when it pops up.
|
Quote:
One is approx <£10, the other is around £30. I was willing to pay up to £100, but I don't see anything in that price range. Reviews linking to units in the £100 range lead to products that are no longer manufactured. The biggest issue, is that apart from a few camera phone pics on eBay, no one has done proper reviews of this stuff. I just said f*ck it and bought one of each :) I'll put up a proper video comparison when they arrive :salute: |
One problem with the Chinese HDMI converters, besides lack of S-video input, is that they force upscaling.
Also, when I tried one ages ago, I found that I couldn't get a reasonable color/levels output that didn't look super-processed. |
Quote:
Quote:
It'll certainly be interesting to see if the more expensive one looks in anyway better. |
Here's what Mike Chi, the creator of RetroTINK, had to say in September 2020·
Quote:
Quote:
> Testing the latest deinterlacer core as well as sync stability under VHS abuse. https://twitter.com/retrotink2/statu...687368?lang=en |
No, it essentially turns the Retrotink into an expensive HDMI adapter, and HDMI adapters make for a crappy conversion method. You still need a HDMI capture card, like Blackmagic, which are known to have issues with SD.
So nothing has changed. Not recommended for videotape conversion. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
VHS/SVHS/Video8/Hi8/Betamax needs line TBC. Something that most users would be oblivious to, or thinking any TBC is TBC. I do wonder about how resilient the so-called frame TBC is. Making a frame TBC is actually not hard, and single chip options do exist. But in practice, it chokes on videotape signal sources. TBCs designed for videotapes were never single-chip solutions, and probably never will be. |
Quote:
That's where the hope of the RetroTINK comes in: if he can make a really great ADC, as he seems to for retro games, then you're just left with capturing the digital signature. (Does his 480i passthrough mode qualify as a great ADC for VHS?) Are there no "modern" solutions for HDMI capture? I would think that would be a solved problem by modern game streamers, etc.... |
Quote:
Quote:
|
Frame TBC alone is not enough, it could have problems locking on the VBI signal, A line TBC is a must for the frame TBC to work reliably. Like mentioned above if they offered lossless 480i out via USB or HDMI I will consider testing one.
|
Quote:
If he were to make a "RetroTINK-VHS" what would the ideal set of features, inputs, and outputs be? Is there an existing good modern software application (especially for Mac?!) that would allow capture if the hardware existed? |
Site design, images and content © 2002-2024 The Digital FAQ, www.digitalFAQ.com
Forum Software by vBulletin · Copyright © 2024 Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.