Is 2017 Dell Inspiron suitable video capture system?

[moshoshoe]

hello! first post here so please bear with my possibly naive (ie. stupid) question. i recently acquired a 2017 dell inspiron and was wondering if it's capable of capturing ripped VHS video (with the addition of a proper ATI card, software, etc.). here are the specs:

- 1 TB HDD 5400 rpm
- 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5
- 8 GB SDRAM DDR3
- Intel HD Graphics 520
- Windows 10

up to this point i've been using a hauppage 1512 HD-PVR 2 interfaced with an iMac and am aware that this is less than an ideal set-up. i'd like to use the pc to capture the VHS as uncompressed digital and perhaps transfer that to the iMac to edit (if that's even possible).

[hodgey]

That should be plenty provided you plan to use a USB or PCI-express capture device. For the old ATI AGP and PCI cards you would need an older computer with capable slots. You will want a hard drive separate from the one with Windows on it for capturing to though, otherwise you could risk dropping frames due to hard drive traffic, especially with a 5400rpm drive.

Windows 10 may not be ideal, depending on what card you plan to use. Some of the favourites around here don't work on Win 10, including all the ATI cards.

You are probably looking for lossless compression rather than uncompressed. I know the UT Video codec works on macos, so that may be preferable to the more commonly used huffyuv and lagarith codecs which don't have a macos version.

[moshoshoe]

thanks hodgey! i appreciate your expertise. i was thinking of going with an ATI 600 usb or Pinnacle USB that i've seen for sale on here. now with an extra drive.... can that be an external usb hard drive or does it need to be installed in the laptop? and can you suggest a program for the actual capturing of the VHS video signal?

[sanlyn]

I have no idea why anyone would want to make life difficult and use a laptop for video processing, but yes you can use an external USB drive. Most of them, like your laptop's drive, are slow 5200 rpm's so you're taking a chance on dropped or inserted frames and poor audio sync. but it has worked for others. I wouldn't try filters or color work, though, because laptop displays are atrociously inaccurate and totally inadequate for that kind of work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moshoshoe

can you suggest a program for the actual capturing of the VHS video signal?

1. VirtualDub v1.9.11. https://www.videohelp.com/download/V...r=gzlrhblNBPfx.
New guide: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post45219 (5 posts in the tutorial)

-or-

2. AmarecTV https://www.videohelp.com/software/AmaRecTV. Ifv you capture to lossless files with huffyuv or Lagarith codecs (which you should be using), then you don't need AmaRec's $30 proprietary codec.

[moshoshoe]

hello sanlyn. thanks for replying! i realize the PC laptop isn't optimal for this but aside from an iMac it's all i have. correct me if i'm wrong, but i was under the impression that a mac was an even worse option because it cannot capture the video in a lossless compressed format, only a lossy one. my plan is to use the PC to capture and iMac to edit using final cut pro.

just out of curiosity, how much do you think i'd have to spend to get a PC tower that would make an optimal capturing and editing system?

[sanlyn]

Your iMac can't use most lossless codecs, won't accept very much in the line of processing software, and you can't do any restoration or repair cleanup with FCP. All you can do with FCP is play with color, make cut-and-join edits, and encode. FCP is basically designed for digital originals, and optimized for large-frame HD digital, at that. It can't even do a decent job of upscaling standard def analog-sourced video for HD output -- which is something you shouldn't be doing anyway. If you don't intend to do any cleanup, why are you bothering with a PC laptop and lossless capture?

If you're stuck on using a laptop for lossless acquisition, you could still use VirtualDub for some basic cleanup operations and then transfer to FCP for edits and encoding. If the laptop has HDMI or VGA output you could hook up a decent external monitor for video work.

There are certified refurbished towers around that have Windows 7 installed, which is pretty decent for video. There are a lot of Vista, Win8 and Win10 towers, but you don't want to torture yourself with those video-unfriendly versions of Windows. You can find used Win7 towers at Amazon and newegg.com.

What is your ultimate goal for these analog captures? Do you want DVD or standard definition BluRay/AVCHD for final output, or do you want 'net streaming or external players for TV or smart-TV, or web posting? Or do you want all of those? If you want multiple formats form multiple uses, lossless capture is the only way to go. From lossless you can go into many final formats without damage to your archived original.

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moshoshoe

now with an extra drive.... can that be an external usb hard drive or does it need to be installed in the laptop?

USB works, though ideally it would be USB3. If it's a 2017 model it probably has at least one USB3 port. I've captured to a USB2 drive without issues, but I wouldn't rely on it.

Laptops rarely have more extra slots for full size 2.5'' hard drives. Though, as it's a 2017 model you may be able to install one of the new tiny M.2 SSD disks and put the operating system on it, and then capture to the HDD.

It is in fact possible to capture lossless on macOS with VideoGlide, though the number of supported cards is limited.

For capturing you don't actually need a particularly powerful computer, i.e many people here use 10+ year old towers running Windows XP with the ATI AGP/PCI cards, as you can't put them in new computers. You could probably find something cheap used as sanlyn suggests.

[sanlyn]

My earliest VHS captures were with an ATI All In Wonder 7500 AGP (I still have and use that card) on Windows 98 with a single-core 1.8 GHz CPU and "gigantic" 80GB IDE drives. So I'm pretty sure a modern Inspiron 15 with multi-core CPU's can handle it. Yes, the 15's have USB-3. I can't say that I've captured to external USB drives, but I do keep captures archived on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

It is in fact possible to capture lossless on macOS with VideoGlide, though the number of supported cards is limited.

Yes, now I recall reading your post on that last summer. Thanks for jogging my lazy memory on that. Only trouble with a Mac is what to do with a lossless UTVideo capture afterwards, other than simple edits and encoding. If the capture is fairly pristine, you're home free. If not, you just have a very noisy capture on your hands.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moshoshoe

- Intel HD Graphics 520
- Windows 10
and perhaps transfer that to the iMac to edit (if that's even possible).

Most laptops cannot be calibrated, and have that obnoxious shiny screen, so you'll need to use an external calibrated monitor to accurately view the video. Some Dell have an anti-glare screen that can be psuedo-calibrated (close enough for raw capture), but I'd need exact specs on the laptop.

Windows 10 can be a nuisance, but can often be worked around. The bigger issue with Win10 is it constantly "does stuff" in the background, like polling the MS sites constantly for updates. That activity can mess up capturing.

Transferring Windows to Mac is not an issue, I've done it for years. I was quite fond of Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro for many years. Still am, though rarely use either anymore.

Quote:

You will want a hard drive separate from the one with Windows on it for capturing to though, otherwise you could risk dropping frames due to hard drive traffic, especially with a 5400rpm drive.

Isn't Inspiron the notebook designation only? Laptops often don't give much choice, in way of hard drive, unless it's a beefy $1k+ model. While a 2nd drive dedicated to capture is always ideal, sometimes you can get away with a single-drive system. But you really have to monitor it, and never fill it. This has only been a true statement in the past 5-10 years, where the best motherboards/chips and drive are in use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moshoshoe

now with an extra drive.... can that be an external usb hard drive or does it need to be installed in the laptop?
and can you suggest a program for the actual capturing of the VHS video signal?

The extra drive cannot be USB anything. It bursts speed, not sustained. That doesn't work for capture. Capture internal only.

VirtualDub for capturing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

I have no idea why anyone would want to make life difficult and use a laptop for video processing
I wouldn't try filters or color work, though, because laptop displays are atrociously inaccurate and totally inadequate for that kind of work..

It takes at least $1.5k, maybe $2k, to get a laptop capable of quality capturing. Or a used/refurb model for between $500 and $1k. Laptops exist that are better at capturing than even some desktops (like the ones we both used back in the day). I have 2 such machines, 1 is for sale (
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/mark...ng-system.html). I had 3, but it's hard faulting as of a few weeks ago. That's what actually prompted me to dig out more of my gear, and I just need to keep one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moshoshoe

but i was under the impression that a mac was an even worse option because it cannot capture the video in a lossless compressed format, only a lossy one. my plan is to use the PC to capture and iMac to edit using final cut pro.
just out of curiosity, how much do you think i'd have to spend to get a PC tower that would make an optimal capturing and editing system?

That, and some other reasons. Mac was a DV-centric SD workflow, made to "make movies", and you have many limitations on hardware, software, and codecs available. Capturing non-camera was always a task for Windows. Even Linux capture is better than Mac.

Your plan is perfect: capture Windows, edit FCP on Mac.

Price to build a Windows desktop ideal for capturing, only considering the hardware, not software, however around $500. It really depends on what components are selected. My own builds probably run closer to $650, if I was buying the parts today (Nov 2018). Even then, I may have to wait, as some of the pieces I use are rarer, not readily available off-the-shelf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanlyn

and you can't do any restoration or repair cleanup with FCP. All you can do with FCP is play with color, make cut-and-join edits, and encode. FCP is basically designed for digital originals, and optimized for large-frame HD digital, at that. It can't even do a decent job of upscaling standard def analog-sourced video for HD output

FCP is quite nice. But as you say, it's an editor, not for restoring.

I'm not sure how FCP sits on the upscale front. We've worked with several filmmakers that use it for just that. In general, yes, upscale = bad. But the VHS assets were just a portion of the full documentaries. Those productions can be so insanely long, so no idea when (or if) we'll ever see the finished product.

Quote:

you could still use VirtualDub for some basic cleanup operations and then transfer to FCP for edits and encoding. If the laptop has HDMI or VGA output you could hook up a decent external monitor for video work.

Yes, capture/restore Windows, edit only Mac.

[moshoshoe]

wow! thanks for the plethora of information guys! this will get me well on my way. i mainly want to capture and restore as best i can my VHS collection to a digital format. i've already started doing so using a hauppage HD PVR 2 with its accompanying software (HDPVRCapture) but it only coverts to .mts files and the results are pretty underwhelming. i'd like to try my hand at something more sophisticated and involved. i basically just need a new hobby!

btw would either of these towers be sufficient to capture and edit with?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...o/253993220374

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...T/264045722340

[sanlyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moshoshoe

wow! thanks for the plethora of information guys! this will get me well on my way. i mainly want to capture and restore as best i can my VHS collection to a digital format. i've already started doing so using a hauppage HD PVR 2 with its accompanying software (HDPVRCapture) but it only coverts to .mts files and the results are pretty underwhelming. i'd like to try my hand at something more sophisticated and involved. i basically just need a new hobby!

btw would either of these towers be sufficient to capture and edit with?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...o/253993220374

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...T/264045722340

You don't need a super computer to the job but stay away from Vista, W8, and avoid W10 if you can. The PC's you mention seem more than adequate, but for the past few years this forum has reluctantly had to omit eBay from our preferred list of hardware vendors. Most people here use Windows XP or Windows 7 machines. It's not the PC that's your problem, it's the capture device and software. I think you've found that hardware and software optimized for HD and lossy capture codecs is not the way to get the quality you're looking for. We could have told you that before you started with the HD-PVR, because it's been many tried many times with the same results. The correct methods and hardware for VHS digitizing has been rehashed and tested exhaustively for thousands of times in this forum and others, yet people still ignore the advice of experts who've been there and done it. Nor do they learn from the mistakes and trials of those who ignored experienced advice.

You're using the wrong capture tools and software. You'll have nothing but grief and mediocre videos if you keep trying to re-invent the wheel and defy the laws of physics.

You won't get workable captures by capping to lossy codecs, adding nasty compression artifacts to analog sources where such artifacts don't exist, throwing away 50% of your source color resolution, destroying unrecoverable source data that gets discarded by lossy compression, and all the rest of the problems and damage that come with the path you're pursuing.

I own a Haupaauge PVR device installed on an HTPC. All of these new PVR devices work the same way. They make really decent high definition recordings from HD broadcasts, but they need hours of work to make them acceptable as BluRay compatible videos. Meanwhile they make really crappy, noisy, low-bitrate captures from standard definition sources that defy cleanup and reprocessing. And there's nothing anyone can do about it. They are designed that way on purpose. This forum and other tech forums have repeatedly cautioned that HD-PVR's are poor choices for VHS transfer.

Capture VHS played on a decent, recommended VCR, use its s-video output with a line-level tbc sent thru a frame-level external tbc into a USB or AGP capture device optimized for analog source. Capture to lossless AVI with a YUY2 colorspace and compressed with lossless huffyuv or Lagarith codecs. From there you can filter, play with color, put it thru any number of editors for cut-and-join edits, and encode to whatever final output you want -- and do it all losslessly without damage or data loss to your original capture.

If you can't get a VCR with line-level tbc and s-video output, then at least get a mainstream Panasonic or high-end JVC in decent condition and feed its composite output to a Panasonic DMR-ES10 or ES15 for use as a pass-thru device for line-level correction and frame-level sync into your capture card, and take advantage of theb ES10/15's 3D Y/c comb filter and excellent composite->svideo converter. People have been doing this with great success for years. Why are you avoiding it?

Anything else is simply asking for trouble and disappointment for hardware and software that is not engineered for acceptable performance with the older tech and analog sources you're working with. Why not use what has been recommended, tested, and proven to work?

Some recommended USB capture devices and tbc components are not easy to find. You might pick one up in the forum's marketplace section. An easy to find USB capture card that works well with VHS and has been a favorite for years is the Diamond Multimedia VC500. It's budget priced nowadays, is not a crummy Chinese copy of something else, and works with XP, W7, W8, and W10. Instead of using its not-great capture software, use it with VirtualDub or AmarecTV. When searching for these capture devices, get your info from advanced users in video tech forum, not from Amazon or BestBuy reviews written by uninformed users who know less about video than you do. Avoid the over-priced EZCap (aka EZCrap) and countless EZCrap clones with their high noise levels and oddball color rendition.

There are lots of dirt cheap, monkey-level easy, push-button ways of handling VHS transfers but are truly worthless ways of time and effort. Ignore the advertising and use what has always been known to work well.

[Added] The Hauppauge USB Live-2 is another recommended and very good capture device. (Frankly, I still think the VC500 is a little better, but who can tell the difference between two good contenders?).