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01-18-2019, 12:20 PM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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Some time back I saw a suggestion on another video forum that the Snell & Wilcox Kudos line of standards converters (PAL to NTSC and v.v.) could be used as a TBC. I picked one up for a reasonable price on eBay, but in the meantime I acquired some recommended DataVideo units and never tried using it as a TBC until now.

Recently I've been trying my hand at some PAL work and the DataVideo units are not suitable. I'm not planning to do a whole lot of PAL work, so I'm unlikely to invest in much additional hardware. However, I would like to get an idea of how well the S&W is performing. It seems to work quite well as a video converter, but what's the best way to evaluate, not just this piece of equipment, but any TBC in general?

Right now I'm converting a bargain-bin VHS of cartoons to PAL to use as a test tape. While starting my experimentation I already converted an EP tape of Airport to PAL. A sample test clip of a PAL capture from it is below; since I didn't have a PAL-spec TBC I used the S&W in pass-through mode in place of a TBC. Comments on its performance, and how should I go about checking other TBCs in future?

Clip workflow is Sony SVO-965P >CVBS> S&W Kudos 600 >S-Video> ATI AIW X1800; VirtualDub set to PAL-B, 720x576, 25fps.


Attached Files
File Type: avi AirportNPAL3clip.avi (86.09 MB, 5 downloads)
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  #2  
01-18-2019, 01:10 PM
JPMedia JPMedia is offline
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Other users will go into greater detail, but a great way to test TBCs is to find a VHS copy of Liar Liar (1997). Apparently this particular VHS tape has hyper-aggressive copy protection and a properly functioning TBC will be able to defeat this copy protection.
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  #3  
01-18-2019, 01:22 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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DataVideo gear works perfectly with both PAL and NTSC. But I wonder if you don't have true PAL, but rather one of the variants -- there are many.

That Snell unit has these specs:
"Inputs PAL, NTSC, NTSC-J, NTSC4.4, PAL-N, PAL-M, SECAM with automatic input detection"
"Outputs PAL, NTSC, NTSC-J, PAL-N, PAL-M"

I'm not aware of any standard conversion units, that also have TBC, that routes the video through the TBC on passthrough (non-conversion). That bypass mode bypasses everything, and was a typical function of many rackmount units.

Evaluating TBCs requires a library of test tapes. Those aren't something you can buy, but must be built over time.

I'd caution you not to suggest something has TBC too quickly. I've seen that far too many times over the years. What inevitably happens is it only works in a few circumstances, but is either not a TBC, or a really weak one. Somebody buys it off the hasty advice, gets burned, and then you're the a-hole with bad advice. So again, proceed with caution.

Anybody that has bought a VCR or workflow from me knows my first question is "what is your source", and if VHS "what mode are these recorded in". That matters. I don't want to pair the wrong gear to a project source. There are some devices that can kludge through certain projects, specific sources, and may seem to the untrained eye to be a TBC. But in other settings, it'll be a complete POS, not at all a true TBC (in terms of what we need for consumer analog sources).

Also try to set the AIW to PAL-I or PAL-G mode, even if PAL-B is the supposed source.

"Liar Liar" does indeed have some good strong copy protection, though it's definitely not the worst or strongest around. That specific tape is in my test bed.

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  #4  
01-18-2019, 02:35 PM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPMedia View Post
Other users will go into greater detail, but a great way to test TBCs is to find a VHS copy of Liar Liar (1997). Apparently this particular VHS tape has hyper-aggressive copy protection and a properly functioning TBC will be able to defeat this copy protection.
Ouch. I HAD that tape, and then I gave it away back in the days when I thought I'd never watch anything but DVD/Blu-rays again!

Here's what I do have in the library, all original studio releases. Which would be most suitable for evaluation, in your experience?

PAL: Song of the South (Disney, UK. Not sure of release date). All other tapes NTSC:

Dances with Wolves | The Mummy Returns | The Avengers (WB 1998) | Titanic (fullscreen) |The Mask of Zorro | The Jewel of the Nile | Twister | Mission: Impossible | The Scorpion King | Mr. Holland's Opus | City Slickers

And a whole slew of Disney tapes...I had a few myself, but I recently purchased someone else's collection on eBay:

Aladdin | The Return of Jafar | Aladdin and the King of Thieves | The Little Mermaid | Pinocchio | Fantasia | Max Keeble's Big Movie | Mickey's Once Upon a Christmas | Mickey's Twice Upon a Christmas | MelodyTime | Stitch | Mickey's Magical World | Sing Along Songs: Under the Sea | Sing Along Songs: Disneyland Fun | 101 Dalmatians | Sleeping Beauty | The Jungle Book | The Fox and the Hound | Treasure Planet | James and the Giant Peach | The Hunchback of Notre Dame | Air Bud | Homeward Bound II | Hercules: Zero to Hero | Toy Story | Toy Story 2 | Swiss Family Robinson | Bedknobs & Broomsticks | Pocahontas II Old Yeller | Tarzan | The Lion King | A Bug's Life | Bambi | Finding Nemo | Duck Tales the Movie: Treasure of the Lost Lamp

Somewhere in there are bound to be a few which would make good test tapes for TBCs. Before I sit down and start watching a week's worth of video, does anyone have good ideas as to where to start?
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  #5  
01-18-2019, 02:47 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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Retail tapes make up less than 10% of my test bed. Those are just good for various anti-copy schemes, simply one kind of TBC test. There are plenty of natural errors that are just as ugly or uglier.

Disney tapes are infamous for copy protection, but in reality are very hit-or-miss, even for the same title. I have no Disney tapes in my test bed. The protection is either trivial or non-existent. (If you go back to my posts in years past, even I was under the false impression that Disney tapes were the worst.)

Ducktales the Movie may be one of the uglier Disney tapes I have ... I think.
MI is a Sony release, and Sony were real SOBs about ridiculous copy protections that nearly made the tapes/discs unviewable.

Lesser titles like The Tick cartoon and Young Indiana Jones Chronicles were really ugly. The Tick is in my test bed.

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  #6  
01-18-2019, 03:05 PM
ehbowen ehbowen is offline
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Hmm. This M:I is a Paramount. Well, what should I be looking for as far as putting together a test bed of my own?
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  #7  
01-18-2019, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehbowen View Post
Hmm. This M:I is a Paramount. Well, what should I be looking for as far as putting together a test bed of my own?
You're right ... disregard. Do you have any Sony releases?

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