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  #21  
01-26-2019, 02:37 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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As the entire point of this was so that I can capture in Vdub, I have no problem with not using other capture software or having to add the first step to configure the 510-USB each time before capture. I'm assuming I should use the option checkbox to relink the audio, or does that even matter since there's only the rca L&R analog audio inputs? I'll try a full test capture tomorrow or Monday. Thanks for the help.

Erich
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  #22  
01-26-2019, 03:24 PM
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Good question about the checkbox.

I don't know.

Its probably like the [VCR] check box in that other property page, put there by Microsoft, ignored by the Third-party. I think that check box for the [VCR] was for turning off/on a TBC/DNR signal conditioner in a capture device, if it had one.. but its been long since ignored by most manufacturers.

Its kind of laughable that Microsoft was trying to set an aesthetic example and everyone balked at their design, doing whatever they want and leaving the controls because they didn't know how to remove them, or grey them out.

In my experience.. its never made a difference either way, checked or un-checked.. it gives you something to do.. that "feeling of a good crank on a secure Philips screw driver that truly fits.." .. I guess it has psychological value?

.. I don't know

Last edited by jwillis84; 01-26-2019 at 03:37 PM.
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  #23  
01-27-2019, 10:24 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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Huzzah! A 5 minute test capture on my iMac Pro Windows 10 bootcamp partition was successful with 0 dropped frames. I did have to relink the audio in Crossbar Thing. Now to access the quality and myriad of capture settings...

Erich
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  #24  
01-27-2019, 01:24 PM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Generally pay attention to Brightness and Contrast and ignore the other settings, especially Sharpness or you'll get yourself into trouble.

Your leaving my area of knowledge and entering Lordsmurf or Sanlyn territory.. good luck.
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  #25  
01-27-2019, 11:02 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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It's nice when I don't have to figure out something on my own. I can focus my energy elsewhere now.

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  #26  
11-24-2019, 06:35 PM
zeus163 zeus163 is offline
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I'm posting here because this is where LS sent me when I asked about drivers after purchasing a Pinnacle 710USB from him. If I need to start a new thread because this is an older post, just let me know.

I finally tried to get the device set-up today. I installed the drivers he linked, which were also the the one Elinder linked to in the first post. After doing that, I plugged in the device and it appears to be recognized and working. I ran the crosshair thingy as recommended and then opened up VirtualDub. When I try to capture, I select the Pinnacle device, but under video no video source is recognized.

I'm using a Sony DCR TRV320 plugged in using the break-out dongle cable into the Pinnacle. Nothing seems to be working. I've uninstalled the driver and then reinstalled it, restarted my machine, tried two different SVHS cables, plugged the USB into a different port and while VirtualDub sees the device, there is nothing recognized under the video source. I've even tried to just use the video RCA to see if that works.

I've ordered another break-out cable to see if maybe my old cable is bad, but I'm not sure what else to try right now. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear.

I am running Windows 10, but I thought this device could still work with Windows 10.

Thanks.

Last edited by zeus163; 11-24-2019 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Just clarifying that I know this post is older than 72 days.
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  #27  
11-24-2019, 10:11 PM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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I'm attempting to run down a problem with the same drivers for the 710-usb on Windows 7.

Pretty similar behavior, driver installs, virtualdub can't see the 710-usb capture device.

However, GraphEdit (does) see the device and can produce a graph which will use it to display capture video and sound.

The problem "seems" to be wrapped up in some Visual Studio Interface issues post Windows Vista, aka Vista, 7, 8, 10

Microsoft fired just over 1/2 of the company in the year 2010. Including most of the DirectX team except those that worked directly on Xbox. At that time they were "re-organizing" the Interfaces for DirectX 11 and other dependencies creating "virtual interfaces".. then they got fired and things got left half done. The older drivers work fine on software written before the Apocalypse.. but after that you need some of these "undefined" Visual Studio "Runtimes" which bridged the gap.

There has never been a good dependency walker after Vista.. Microsoft went dumb and stupid and just started "deprecating" anything they didn't understand because they fired those people who understood it. Working was optional to the bottom line.. so this is where we are in Win10.. a small set of "sometimes working" functions. The kids hired to re-learn this stuff sort of poke at it.. but it doesn't work very well.

Honestly Vista has grabbed my attention more and more after XPSP2 because it actually looks a lot more stable than Win10.. but even it is very old.

The good news is I know it works.. the bad news is I "cleaned house" and lost the Visual Studio Runtime installers.. and Microsoft is promising to nuke the Updates and runtimes for Win7 in one month.. after that the damage will be permanent.
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  #28  
11-24-2019, 10:56 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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I've encountered the same behavior with 500-USB and Windows 10 and a reboot of the PC fixed the problem, It occasionally returns but the reboot still fixes it.
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  #29  
11-25-2019, 12:17 AM
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See this post from a few days ago: VirtualDub not capturing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Drivers here:
XP = http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFi...CLEUSB2x32.exe
Vista/7/8/10 x86 = http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFi...CLEUSB2x32.exe
Vista/7/8/10 x64 = http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFi...iver_64bit.exe
- Main driver page: http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFi...readmeHW10.htm

Then see this post: How to enable s-video input on Pinnacle 510-USB?
Download Crossbar Thing from that thread.

Install drivers, reboot is required.
Start Crossbar Thing, set to s-video crossbar. Close.
Then open VirtualDub, capture mode.
Preview mode, not overlay.
Set to s-video if needed (if not already showing s-video), should look perfect.

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  #30  
11-25-2019, 08:51 PM
zeus163 zeus163 is offline
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Yeah. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I'm somewhat adept at setting up devices on computers and getting them working, but I'm having no success.

I decided to uninstall the Pinnacle driver and start over. After uninstalling it, I restarted my machine.
I then installed the driver and rebooted. I plugged the Pinnacle device in and hooked up the cables from the Sony DCR TRV320 into it. I fired up the Crossbar thing and set to s-video crossbar and closed it. I opened up VirtualDub, went to capture mode and the Pinnacle is recognized and selected. Preview mode is selected as well. When I go to video sources there are none available.

I looked in the menu settings of the Sony camera and played with a few settings that I thought might make a difference and nothing worked.

I am going to plug away on this some more as I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. I have a new break-out cable coming from Amazon to try and perhaps that will work.

In the other post you linked to, the poster mentioned having some additional software installed. I believe I have DirectX installed and the .net frameworks. So, not sure that's the direction I need to go here.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if this was me, so I'll keep plugging away at it. I'm just hoping for some more suggestions. I also plan on trying to install it on a different machine I have as well.

Oh and can someone tell me what the Pinnacle is recognized as under devices?

Thanks a million.
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  #31  
11-28-2019, 03:06 PM
zeus163 zeus163 is offline
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Success. I was able to capture the old 8mm tapes I wanted to using the Pinnacle device.

No video sources were ever shown under the video tab and I was never able to see a preview. I did some more fiddling around and then when I started the camera and clicked capture on VirtualDub, I noticed that a file was being created and information was showing that I was capturing.

However, what I find odd, is no matter what, when I want to start a new capture, I have to restart the machine. latreche34 mentioned odd behavior like that. It's not too big of a deal, just a pain that I have to do it each time. But now I know can start to capture the few older 8mm tapes this way instead of doing these few via DV.

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but at least now it is mostly working.

Thanks everyone!
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  #32  
12-27-2019, 08:56 PM
Sirworm Sirworm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus163 View Post
Success. I was able to capture the old 8mm tapes I wanted to using the Pinnacle device.

No video sources were ever shown under the video tab and I was never able to see a preview. I did some more fiddling around and then when I started the camera and clicked capture on VirtualDub, I noticed that a file was being created and information was showing that I was capturing.

However, what I find odd, is no matter what, when I want to start a new capture, I have to restart the machine. latreche34 mentioned odd behavior like that. It's not too big of a deal, just a pain that I have to do it each time. But now I know can start to capture the few older 8mm tapes this way instead of doing these few via DV.

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but at least now it is mostly working.

Thanks everyone!
Don't mean to bring up this thread from the dead but have you tried using Virtualdub2? I had the same problem you were having (with the preview window not showing), however Virtualdub2 seems to treat the 510 nicely.

Yeah... for some reason no Video Sources pop up for me either despite me using Crossbar Thing. Everything works, it's just that no video sources pop up despite Virtualdub detecting S Video input

One thing I noticed that was odd was that I believe I had accidentally installed the 500-USB drivers (because I mistook my 510 USB for a 500) and apparently the 500-USB drivers work for the 510? Either that or I installed the 510 drivers without realizing it.
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  #33  
01-27-2020, 06:04 PM
tjmcdoug tjmcdoug is offline
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Is there a way to adjust the audio using Crossbar Thing? I have the 510 and was directed to use Crossbar Thing to adjust audio input to 50% values (-7.5db) but I don't see any option to adjust audio?
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  #34  
01-28-2020, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmcdoug View Post
Is there a way to adjust the audio using Crossbar Thing? I have the 510 and was directed to use Crossbar Thing to adjust audio input to 50% values (-7.5db) but I don't see any option to adjust audio?
There are 2x crossbars. One simply selects composite/s-video. The other brings up a window with multi tabs, and audio is on one such tab. If you don't see it, I can try to get a screenshot later, busy now.

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  #35  
01-29-2020, 12:10 AM
tjmcdoug tjmcdoug is offline
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Here are the menus I see. The Crossbar with multiple tabs only has tabs associated with video, not audio. Should I also check the box to link related streams?


Attached Images
File Type: png Crossbar Thing 1.PNG (23.9 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: png Crossbar Thing 2.PNG (7.3 KB, 8 downloads)
File Type: png Crossbar Thing 3.PNG (8.6 KB, 5 downloads)
File Type: png Crossbar Thing 4.PNG (14.2 KB, 8 downloads)
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  #36  
01-29-2020, 01:58 AM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Crossbar Thing 2.PNG

Has two drop down menus [Input] and [Output]

Its (not) Intuitive but these represent the [two-sides] of a box, In-side and Out-side

On those sides each has "pins" assigned Numbers

(for example )

Input (side)

0: Video Composite In
1: Video SVideo In

Output (side)

0: Video Decoder Out

========================

Input (side)

2: Audio Line In

Output (side)

1: Audio Decoder Out


You work [backwards] from the Output side selecting the Output pin of the Crossbar to "pick" the Input pin you want assigned to that Output pin.

So to select the Input pin to "map" to the Video Decoder Out - "first" select the Output pin [0: Video Decoder Out]
then the only choices you have in the drop down selector box on the "right" Input side will be related to "Video"

make the choice and click [Apply]


So to select the Input pin to "map" to the Audio Decoder Out - "first" select the Output pin [1: Audio Decoder Out]
then the only choices you have in the drop down selector box on the "right" Input side will be related to "Audio"

make the choice and click [Apply]


(In theory) you could have multiple possible Audio Input "sources"

(In theory) they could be

1: Tuner
2: Audio Line In
3: Mic In

ect... it all depends upon the device driver for the device and what it detects is offering a signal, devices that don't exist won't offer a source and would not enumerate a pin Number.. for various reasons.. it may not have a Tuner in this model, but the same hardware and device driver may work with a different combination that does have other sources

Just think of that [Tab] dialog box and two menu "sides" as a weird wacko proxy for the two sides of a [BOX] and those drop down selectors as "switches" for mapping or connecting sources to sinks.. of Inputs to Outputs

Its the Output that decides what shows up in the Input choices

And this "might help"

Notice that on each side of the [BOX] each possible pin set starts counting from [0], that is each side has a [0] choice, that's because all of the pins on the same side of the box are part of a "set" of Inputs, or "set" of Outputs.. they may be different signal types.. but they are on the same side of that imaginary [BOX]

It won't let you map a possible video source to an audio output

[Notice too] that you can change the "Default" [Related Pin:] by first selecting the Output pin for Video and then picking its Input pin. The Related Pin will always be "2: Audio Line In" but after you press [Apply] it will be "stuck" to that video input.. if you then select the Output pin for Audio, the Related Pin: will be whatever you confirmed with the last Apply for video.

(In theory) with multiple Audio Input sources, like a Tuner or Mic input.. you could do the reverse and "glue" a Video pin with a specific Audio input and press [Apply].. but for this device you cannot.. its a degenerate case that doesn't show off the robustness of this fictional "Crossbar" way of connecting things

Its a lot more intuitive when you see it in GraphEdit.. but works if all you have is this simplified "control sheet".

I think a checkbox matrix would be easier.. but someone thought drop down menus were neater and less cluttered.

also.. [Related Pin:] has nothing to do with [Link Related Streams] .. Pins and Streams are different things

the [Link Related Streams] checkbox is an "optional" control on this boilerplate design, it may do nothing at all.. its like many controls on property pages for the device driver, proc-amp and so forth.. it has to appear there.. and the device driver can "grey" it out if it "wants too".. but the lazy way is simply not design any code to change it one way or another.. if it does nothing checking or unchecking it will do nothing.. quite often it does nothing in many drivers/filters

the "telling thing" is when you check the box and the [Apply] button does not light up as a clickable button.. basically nothing happened thats important to the driver/filter as far as its concerned "no difference" has been made

its real purpose I believe was when this property page was servicing DV video and the user could select different audio tracks in the same video stream.. but thats an archaic bit of trivia these days.. a relic from the past

this familiar design is still called up when designing a device driver, but only some of the controls actually do anything.. actually for this page.. most of the controls do something

Last edited by jwillis84; 01-29-2020 at 02:31 AM.
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  #37  
01-30-2020, 11:03 PM
tjmcdoug tjmcdoug is offline
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Thanks for the response. But am I still missing some sort of audio proc amp where I can adjust the audio downward to 50% levels (-7.5db)? Crossbar Thing 4.PNG has several video sliders but I don't see the analogous sliders where I could adjust the audio level.
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  #38  
01-31-2020, 12:22 AM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Microsoft never created a default boilerplate Control sheet that usb/pci device drivers that (also) captured audio could source when creating their driver.

In general video capture did not include audio capture when it was not AVI (Audio and Video Interlaced) to start with.. that is DV was AVI.. but USB video capture, or PCI card video capture (AGP is basically PCI too, but its a special PCI port) were a series of "Still image captures" that got (blended) with audio samples taken from a Sound card.. so the audio crossbar equivalent for USB/PCI was the Microsoft sound mapper, or windows "sound mixer". Some sound cards have a separate sound mixer (like the Turtle Beach card) but it still eventually moves through the windows sound mixer.

There (are) exceptions.

The Pinnacle USB Moviebox driver has a "simplied" db level setter.. but its not something most capture cards have.

Most combo USB/PCI audio and video capture devices do not have a built in amplifer.. that is why you need an external amplifer to "amp" the volume before connecting it to the inputs of the capture device.

The Pinnacle (does) have an internal amp.. which is unusual.. and strictly not as good as a robust external amp.

Its also why many capture cards "Export" the decoded audio from a TV Tuner or route the audio input into a separate sound card. A sound card has an amplifier and separate device drivers and their own type of crossbar.. called a mixer control.. which also eventually pipe through the windows mixer.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg audio.jpg (24.2 KB, 2 downloads)
File Type: jpg video.jpg (25.6 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: jpg wndows mixer.jpg (56.1 KB, 1 downloads)

Last edited by jwillis84; 01-31-2020 at 12:37 AM.
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  #39  
01-31-2020, 09:09 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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I ended up getting a simple level controller to put between either my Pinnacle 510 or Diamond VC500 and use the audio waveform in Virtualdub to adjusts the level. See this thread for the problems I was having.

Clipped audio levels during capture with multiple hardware?

Erich
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  #40  
02-01-2020, 03:01 PM
tjmcdoug tjmcdoug is offline
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ELinder - so there isn't an audio adjust in the Crossbar Thing? What level controller would you recommend?
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