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  #1  
02-07-2019, 10:46 AM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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An "Alpha" version of the new IsoBuster 4.4 is available for download.

This pre-release version is for the purpose of gathering feedback and comments.

Its available here

This version supports extracting recordings in their native VOB format from the RD-XS hard drive to a Windows PC. Its been tested with the RD-XS32, 34, 35, 52, 54, 55, KX50 and the XV34SJ (JPN) and XS34SB (UK) with NTSC_M, NTSC_J and PAL_B.

This is not the same thing as extracting "clips" or "pieces" of recordings. Full recordings, even if fragmented have been tested and works.

I made a video of the process here
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  #2  
02-07-2019, 11:26 AM
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I wish he could do it with the Philips 3575 as well.

I get really annoyed when it adds a copy protection flag to recording. Because then I have to use a Grex between my Philips and RCA, and re-record the shows. (Even a TBC fails to remove the flag, only the Grex works. Ironic, since the Grex is useless on VHS Macrovision, causing color/brightness quality side effects.)

But even the RCA 8020 would be nice.

I'm assuming the Toshiba hard drive must be removed, place in a computer?

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02-07-2019, 12:12 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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I was thinking the Pioneers and Magnavoxs might be interesting to look at. The Mags descended from the Philips tech if I'm not mistaken. The break seemed to come around the 2160 or 513.. which might be a good starting point and include the 3575. The later Funai models that I've looked at don't look like they deviated from the previous models as far as the HDD data.. but I'm not certain.

Was that the RCA 8020 or RCA 8030 you were interested in?

Regarding removing the hard drive from the Toshiba.. not necessarily. I didn't want to complicate the video or confuse the procedure. Removing the hard drive for the video was the easiest to demonstrate.

But there are many options today.

IcyDock for example makes some fine optical SSD ejection trays that could fit in the space of the DVD burner. Older but just as viable were some port selectors available in 2010 for autoswitching the drive connection between the recorder motherboard and a PC eSata port with a USB cable "like" connector.. they are harder to find today, but I have one from the UK. And Digikey sells some modern EVBs for manually switching SATA connections under control of a raspberry pi. A pizero could sit inside the case and "export" the drive as an iSCSI target over wireless.. but that's a fringe idea even for me. Windows has a native iSCSI initator so it could (in theory) mount the drive completely wirelessly so IsoBuster could use it remotely.

The problem is trying to keep it simple without confusing people, demonstrating a smooth path to success. I'd also prefer not to frankenstein or permenantly modify these recorders, just update them in an aesthetically pleasing manner. -- thats kind of why i think the 'ejectable' drive through the DVD slot would be most portable across most brands of recorder.. optical media for these is getting scarce and moving a small pocketable drive between recorder and pc would be hard to beat for convenience.

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02-08-2019, 06:24 PM
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RCA DRC8030N with 80gb HDD, uses Zoran chipset, awesome recorder for cable/satellite. I am getting concerned about the DVD drive in the unit, it's acted odd at times in recent years.

Philips DVDR3575H with 160gb HDD actually isn't as good quality, but it could record 16x9 from ATSC OTA unlike the RCA. But the file had to be re-flagged as 16x9 once ripped from disc.

I also have the JVC SR-DVM700US LSI-based recorder with 250gb HDD, and to be able to remove recordings from it would be a huge time-saver. The only fear I have with the JVC is that the HDD is not replaceable, so I don't want to screw with it, tempt fate. Rather not touch it at all. In fact, I don't know that you can access HDD contents at all.

I don't even care about aesthetics. It's a tool, utility matters to me. I don't have room for it to have guts splayed out is my only requirement.

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02-09-2019, 03:58 AM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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I'll look into those recorders. The toshibas took most of a month and a couple weekends. To a degree support for other brands may depend on interest in whats already supported. If no one shows interest, we might loose interest too. Its kind of a spur of the moment thing, and people seemed to get negative about it in the past. There is nothing like a wet blanket on a topic to kill a project.

I kind of like looking at these puzzle boxes and testing for the developer.. I don't think he has access to any of these recorders, but he's curious, fast, creative and very thorough at handling problems. He really amazes me.

I have a DVM700 bucket of bolts, works except for the burner.. so I can probably look at that too.

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02-09-2019, 04:21 AM
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The JVC DR-MH20, MH30, MH300, DVM600, DVM700 are probably all identical as well.
But to me, the Philips and RCA would be more useful.

The LiteOn (Polaroid DRM-2001G clone specifically) may end up being easier that those, maybe even easier that the Toshiba. And I'd like that one done as well. I currently have 2 of those full of recordings, dreading offload time to DVDs and ripping. Unlike most other recorders, the HDD could be replaced without any special tricks (that I recall). My Polaroids were upgraded to 250gb and 500gb drives, from the 80gb stock.

See this: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...1G-customizing
And: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/106-d...le-w-dvdr.html

I've not looked at that recorder in years, need to read those threads again myself.

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02-09-2019, 05:16 AM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Welp.. knock me over with a feather.. DVM700 burner is okay, dubbed a JVC recording to a toshiba DVD-RAM and played back tosh and jvc recordings from the DVD-RAM with no complaint, seems to be totally working except for a dim display. Also the DVM700 hard drive looks partitioned slightly, though not officially.. something up front and then acres of space and maybe recordings. I'll have to look more into it after I get some sleep.

Last edited by jwillis84; 02-09-2019 at 05:30 AM.
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02-09-2019, 04:04 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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I have resisted testing this theory, so far.. but reading about other people removing their hard drives and putting them into a PC and trying to return them.. only to find they have to use a service remote, or wipe and reinitialize their hard drive.

I thought I would offer this "unverified" theory.

The Windows PC has an "automounter" the first thing it does when it detects a new hard drive in the system, particularly one it thinks is unpartitioned is it throws up a message that asks "in a positive tone".. "Do You Want to Initialize so that you can Use the new drive in this system"

That means it will "write" a Master partition and Book Record (MBR) to the top of the drive, obliterating whatever is there.. "damaging" the DVD/HDD recorder drive. They should tell the "automounter" [NO] I do not want to use the drive in this PC. (a highly unintuitive reaction).

It may be that if more people went against human nature and denied the automounter request, fewer drives would be damaged and have to be reformatted when put back in the DVD recorders.

IsoBuster doesn't need that MBR at the top of the drive, its perfectly happy recognizing strange new partitions and formats.. and making up virtual partitions and file system in its main window without ever writing to the hard drive.

As I said its a theory..

While testing with all of the Toshiba models, I always denied the "automounter" request to "write" to the DVD recorder hard drive, and never had a problem putting it back into the recorder.

There is a command prompt way to disable this automounter behavior, but its really for advanced users. But, I would think for people who often take a DVD hard drive and put it in their PC, using this command might save them a lot of grief.

In fact I really can't think of why its the default.. when you try to format a brand new "un-initialized" drive. It asks the same thing before asking for the details about the format you would like to perform.. so its kind of pointless. Its like "auto opening your CD in file explorer, every time you put a CDROM into the tray".

Except in this case it causes "damage" by default, and makes the user an accomplice.

Last edited by jwillis84; 02-09-2019 at 04:36 PM.
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  #9  
02-10-2019, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
but its really for advanced users.
Well, I'd like to think that's many of us on this forum.

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02-16-2019, 10:36 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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The Philips DVDR3575H has an identical filesystem to the MDR513 its coded as HDDfs 00.70 and appears to be in "roughly" VR format. The Toshibas used a UDF format to contain their files, the Philips and Magnavox appear to simply dump them on the hard drive with a single file allocation table.

The developer has other priorities until March.

JVC DR-MX1 was part of the JVC series which included the MH30 and MH50.. I can look at the MX1.. by association the hard drives in the MH30 and MH50 may use the same storage format.

It helps that the 5.25 drive bay holders are mostly plastic these days, it keeps the costs way down.


[ warning: still experimental ]


dvr-drive1.jpg


Attached Images
File Type: jpg dvr-drive2.jpg (64.9 KB, 7 downloads)

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  #11  
02-18-2019, 05:17 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Found a little nugget in archive dot org

LSI and JVC press release for MX1

Aug. 10, 2004 - LSI Logic Corporation (NYSE: LSI), a leader in innovative digital media processing technologies for the Digital Home, today announced that JVC (Victor Company of Japan, Limited) has selected the LSI Logic DiMeNsionTM 8652 (DMN-8652) DVD recorder system processor for use in the unique JVC "3-in-1" DR-MX1 digital video recorder. By tapping the diverse features integrated into the single-chip DMN-8652, JVC's DR-MX1 integrates the capabilities of a DVD recorder, VCR, and hard disk drive (HDD) recorder into a single, high-performance, full-featured product.


Nothing earth shattering 15 years later, but the MX1 was also the premium model of the MH30 and MH50 the DMN-8600MK manufacturer kit was the basis for many dvr recorders, and its demo screen closely aligns with the color palette of the JVC product line

DMNB600.jpg

The HDD appears to be based on C-Ware TFS2 and may have used the VxWorks operating system. Clues from similar recorders based on the same encoder card in the Netherlands and other European countries suggested it was a VMG0 or VR format, perhaps unfortunately it "may" be encrypted.. i've read programs off it.. but they are skewed in some odd manner, could have been the signal source.. or it might be in big endian format.. not sure. To tell I'll have to pull off some of my recordings, so I know the condition of the signal going in... this was only a preliminary quick glance at what there was to work with. The overall 10,000 ft view however was like many other recorders.. except something odd lurking at the very bottom of the drive the recorder keeps pinging.. might be an encryption key cache.. but I have no way of knowing.


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File Type: pdf DMN8600MK_Final.pdf (326.8 KB, 8 downloads)
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02-18-2019, 08:05 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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JVC Press Release from 2004 on the "Lupin" series

JVC Co., Ltd. has announced the introduction of three new DVD recorders with large capacity HDD that make long term archival quality recordings. The three models all support high speed, high quality dubbing from HDD to DVD. But the DR-MX1, will support 6 way dubbing between VHS/HDD/DVD.


steppenwolf.jpg


Also.. found two LiteOn LVW-5045, would that be close enough.. or a walmart ilo?

A quick look shows they seem to use FAT32 but I neglected to look at the file folders. I don't know how hard they will be to figure out how the vobs go together.



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  #13  
11-01-2019, 05:37 AM
ido2 ido2 is offline
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Old thread, but any update with the JVC MH series?
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11-01-2019, 07:52 AM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Ha.. it has been a little while.

We took a stand down (officially) to adding support for more recorders for a while.

Isobuster author moved back to Europe for the Summer and just arrived back South of the Equator for the Winter.

In spite of that managed to add support for two rather hard to source European Philips recorders I had never heard of. And we got more reports from people in the Netherlands and Italy who had recorders unique to their part of the world I could never hope to touch borrow or obtain. The existing support held up and they got their videos extracted.

The interest over all from people has been very light at best. So we really didn't push up the research or date for adding more recorders. And that includes the Polaroid 2001g and all of the JVC, DVM70, DVM600, DVM700 and the MX1.

I've not been successful in finding any MH50 or MH30 that I could directly touch, borrow or buy from the used market.

I have spent many months looking into the state of affairs with regards to Capture USB dongles, boxes and cards. Apple OS X is about to cut off life support for Quicktime and Microsoft Windows is about to end support for Windows 7. These appeared to become more important since activation and any patch updates required may soon disappear.. so I had to figure out paths forward in that space.. so major distractions.

I have been poking around at raw images for the DVM70 and MX1 and determined they are not related to the Polaroid 2001g and are not encrypted. They have a vague DVD_VR appearance but no discernible UDF structure.. which makes connecting the meta data that indicates where a recording begins on disk harder to figure out. Without understanding that bridge the Isobuster author does not have a lot to work with and hasn't been able to look more deeply into it.

I have a winter trip North next week to freeze proof some property for a parent and then I'll be back and have more time to look at the DVM and MX series. I think the Polaroid 2001g will languish until last.. its a really odd format we sort of understand, but also lacks that last little bit that makes it easy to implement.. the bridge from its meta data per recording to where it starts on disk.

We did try to reach out to several people who have tried to figure out file system formats on various models over the years.. but either because they are gone now, or have no interest.. no one has contributed any information.. so its pretty much been a one man development effort with Isobuster taking the lead.. and I find abandoned or donated DVD.HDD recorders for testing.

Thats the status update for now

Nothing for now.. but maybe in the coming few winter months if things go well.. not having an actual MH50 or MH30 to test with is a major blow though.. we can only hope that they share the same storage formats as the MX1.. and after that is supported someone can test the MH50 or MH30 to confirm they work.

This is sort of what happened with a lot of European variants of recorders.. we had a small sample size to test with and had to wait for other people to try what support was there out.. and could only guess how robust it would be.

Two conspiracy theories have emerged in my mind:

1. people are noticing and keeping quiet waiting to see if these become supported, and catch-22 style we can't support them because we can't get hold of one

2. the "inertia" of wisdom in all of the online forums leads people to believe "this isn't real" that the drives must be encrypted and since no-one has figured them out in 20 years the task must be impossible

To the first.. I have no solution.. but mounting evidence is piling up that it "might" be true.. the market place has taken a deep dive in resale of "supported" DVD/HDD recorders.. but its hampering adding more models. And people just aren't talking about them as much as they use too, it got really quiet after the first 30 or so models were supported.

To the second, this is more likely but unproveable. People used to mention the scraping scripts for (whole drive) salvage of recording material from hard drives.. which wasn't gentle on the hardware.. if a drive was on edge.. forcing even a read from top to bottom to make a forensic copy to perform a days long "all or nothing" recovery.. which end up with a pile of unlabeled media files (if you were lucky and didn't destroy the drive).. was the only option.

Some pretty smart people came up with those scripts.. but they left out threading the needle by connecting meta data with the actual disk blocks and giving the user the opportunity to "pick" only the video they needed or wanted.. and hopping from cluster to cluster guided by the meta data so that only the disk sectors needed were even attempted to be recovered.. vastly improving extraction performance and improving the "chances" of getting the video before the drive failed.. even skipping around sectors that had already failed to rescue recordings whole with the other method never had a hope of recovering.

I'm not going to say every recorder has the "same" meta data format.. but once there was experience with one brand or set of models it snowballed and subsequent models got easier.. except for the Polaroid 2001g and (so far) the JVC models.

I tend to think the JVC models are not nearly as different as the Polaroid.. but we didn't get a lot of encouragement, or hints or help from anyone except Lordsmurf when looking at the JVC MX1 (and I didn't have any of the MH50 or MH30 models) so it sort of naturally fell to the bottom of the priority list.. the very bottom.

I have to claim "there were more examples of all the other models available" than the JVC.. and that just made the task a lot easier. And other people had at least tried to figure out how the meta data was connected to the disk sectors.. even if they failed.. that effort was an encouraging staring point.. it indicated interest.

You wouldn't believe the negative backlash when we started.. people were absolutely convinced it was impossible. Privately it just was not encouraging.

I would really like to get at least the MX1 supported, (by association maybe the MH50, MH30) and definitely the DVM70, DVM600, DVM700.

The 1250 and other JVC blu-ray models however are probably a pipe dream.. they are so rare and hard to get.. and there are more European people who have used the Panasonic blu-ray models we already support .. it just seems unlikely to ever happen.. maybe the MX1 and DVMs.. but that may be the end of the line.

Fun tip.. the Magnavox 800 series (are Not) supported.. but while looking at a couple inside.. they had all the tell tale signs those were suppose to be blu-ray models (like) the European Panasonic blu-ray recorders.. not true HD DVRs but a hybrid. I can speculate that the only thing keeping them from being blu-ray recorders were the burners themselves.

Last edited by jwillis84; 11-01-2019 at 08:20 AM.
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11-01-2019, 09:05 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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I have a MH300 if that's any help, can do a hdd dump or look into it etc. It uses the same LSI chip as the MH50, but I don't know if there are format differences.
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11-01-2019, 10:25 AM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Yeah.. I've been scaping the bottom of the barrel watching eBay for even crumbs.. that is broken "for parts only" MH50 or MH30s.

See the MX1, MH50 and MH30 were the start of a "line" or family of recorders. The MX1 was the (only) JVC triple play for VHS/HDD/DVD ever made.. so its storage format is probably like the prototype or "root source" for the MH50 and MH30 models. They all came out about the same time.. so should be more similar than different, after those the MH200 and MH300 probably came next.. but I think they are Euro models only.. and past experience has been NA and Euro models can differ.. enough.. that I almost always have to get my hands on one and do some weird unpredictable testing to "tease out details" in the meta data to expose how it stores references to video.. a "behavioral analysis".. more often than not I get "Ready" to study the collected raw disk image .. and Peter takes a quick look and says "done" or "try this" and it works flawlessly. Kind of feels like making that long dive for a football and ending up road pizza on the turf with grass on your chin.. but (heh) whatever works.

I wish it were as easy as collecting a raw disk image though.. its more complicated though. Usually I safe guard the original hard drive first. Then substitute that with a new one that has had all its sectors filled with zeros. Then I make a short recording of one or two videos and collect a raw disk image and compress the whole thing down to as small a file as possible for transport.. or to study later. A 160 GB drive image filled with mostly zeroes compresses many orders of magnitude smaller than a used hard drive with many recordings, or a hard drive with lots of random noise fresh from the factory which has never had anything written to its sectors.

There is also a real danger, that attempting to initialize a replacement drive in the recorder could dissociate the old hard drive and then reinserting that one would not allow you to play any of those recordings back. This is a non-zero phenomena.. many Panasonic models do this, mostly the newer ones.. a very few very early ones did not.. but once they started putting firmware and epg data on the hard drives.. they became versioned and locked to only one drive at a time.

At the moment we have zero support for any of the JVC models, ProLine or Consumer line.. so we don't know much about versioning or locking the drive to the firmware on the motherboard. It might be like the Panasonics or the Magnavoxes or Toshiba, Pioneer or SONY. .. We just don't know.

For sure.. JVC put a lot of firmware on the hard drive.. more so in my estimate than any other manufacturer.. and not linearly.. they spread critical boot up parts all over the surface of the disk. You cannot for example duplicate a hard drive by only copying a few 100 MB from the top of the disk.. critical parts are also at the bottom of the disk.

We know this from reports in different parts of the world and experience from other people with the JVC HDS1.

There is no understanding of why its this way.. its simply this way.

Last edited by jwillis84; 11-01-2019 at 10:42 AM.
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11-02-2019, 05:58 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Hm yeah doesn't seem to be a simple process to initialize a new hard drive. The service manuals mentions an initialization thing in the service menu though it doesn't mention whether this would work on a blank HDD, and even for that you would need a service remote or replacement. I guess JVC was rather restrictive on these things, even the VHS VCRs require a special service remote for adjusting things unlike other brands.
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11-02-2019, 10:13 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Unlike Pioneer (used a remote + cdrom), Unlike Panasonic (used fw cdrom), Unlike Sony (used a remote only), Unlike Toshiba (no remote or cdrom accepted a blank drive and autoformatted), Unlike Magnavox (secret skip code on remote)

JVC sourced "replacement HDDs" which were pre-formatted at the factory. They literally didn't have a field replacement method. They treated the HDD as a major replacement event that needed repair center installation. I don't know that they ever even married the HDD to a particular unit.. it seems they avoided fw updates more so than any other manufacturer. From tales by previous owners long ago they versioned preformatted HDD but never installed fw even at the services centers. The fw was installed at the factory in Japan.

JVC were much more expensive than most other DVRs and I don't know if anyone ever tried upgrading their size or cross installing one drive to a different recorder. The user base just seemed so small and people avoided experimentation with the JVC units. There just weren't a lot of consumer level models to try things on and the ProLine was too expensive to risk experimenting on.. as opposed to a Pioneer or a Panasonic.. those were expensive but people dabbled.
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11-11-2019, 01:58 PM
AwesomeMarioFan AwesomeMarioFan is offline
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Hi,

I have an RD-XS32 recorder that I would like to extract the recordings from. Is there a way to do this using an image of the hard disk without utilizing Isobuster? (Like splitting the TS_HDDMV.DAT file into the multiple recordings manually using the metadata, which I believe is stored in TMAPDATA.IFO.)
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11-12-2019, 06:50 AM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeMarioFan View Post
Hi,

I have an RD-XS32 recorder that I would like to extract the recordings from. Is there a way to do this using an image of the hard disk without utilizing Isobuster? (Like splitting the TS_HDDMV.DAT file into the multiple recordings manually using the metadata, which I believe is stored in TMAPDATA.IFO.)
Isobuster (does work with raw disk images, and can make raw disk images itself). It works with them just as easily as with physical hard disks.

I wasn't sure if you were looking for (another) raw disk imaging tool.. or someway of not using Isobuster.

There are lots of raw disk capture tools but (so far as I know) only Isobuster has been tested with the RD-XS32 and is known to work. It was the first model to actually be figured out.

The DAT and IFO structures "appear" to be DVD_VR but since DVD_VR was only specified for 4.7 GB media, it goes a bit further than the literal interpretation.. especially when dealing with fragmentation.. and that was the key to making it practical. Managing a single write once 4.7 GB disc space is one thing, but scaling it up to 80 GB is something else.
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