Quantcast JVC HM-DR10000 (PAL) or JVC HR-S9600 (PAL) for S-VHS & VHS transfer? - digitalFAQ Forum
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  #1  
03-15-2019, 04:27 AM
D.Page D.Page is offline
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Hi Everybody.

Before I ask, let me be clear that I am in the UK and use PAL/625 only.

I want to transfer lots of S-VHS and VHS material to the PC and have most of the equipment necessary to do a good job, including the purchase of a Datavideo TBC-1000, thanks to a prominent member on here.

I have a Panasonic NV-HS1000 and also two Panasonic NV-SV121 VCRs to use as playback VCRs but would like a decent JVC VCR to use when I am not sufficiently impressed with certain tapes using my existing VCRs and I want to try any 'problem' tapes on a JVC VCR to see if it yields better performance.

I normally have the built in (field-type, multi line) TBC of all above Panasonic VCRs activated, as well as use of the Datavideo TBC-1000, the former to clean up the image and the latter to clean up the signal during transfer.

I mainly use my NV-HS1000 for use as the playback VCR when transferring, and is very good most of the time but on certain 'problem' tapes I would get the occasional frame hop at certain points in the recording and when this happens, I find by deactivating the NV-HS1000's built in TBC and just using the TBC-1000, the frame hops disappear (but with increased sync jitter as the sacrifice).

Both the HM-DR10000 and HR-S9600 PAL version models have been highlighted in bold on the thread about recommended VCRs for playback for when transferring material to the PC ( VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video ) their inclusion in the list denoting they are "suggested" models, and any in bold type denoting they are "best regarded" models.

What would be the better playback VCR for transferring S-VHS and VHS material to the PC, the JVC HM-DR10000 or the JVC HR-S9600 ? I stress again, I am referring to the PAL models here.


Any reply would be helpful. Thanks.
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  #2  
03-15-2019, 04:41 AM
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I don't like D-VHS decks. D-VHS decks have almost never tracked A+ on my scale, meaning SP only is safe, not LP or EP/SLP, so no-go for me.

HR-S9600-9911 dynamic drums are all failing like Panasonic caps these days. One of my favorite decks, but this is getting to be a problem. Nobody foresaw this 10-20 years ago. At first, it seemed to hit only some % of decks. But as years went by, it got worse, larger %, maybe even majority of decks. All of my DD decks, and decks I'd sold in years past, have developed the issue. Replacement parts don't exist, and 3D printing isn't yet quality enough for both hard detail and hardness.

I want to update the suggestion thread when I get time. I plan to add quite a bit. But no time yet.

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  #3  
03-15-2019, 10:12 AM
D.Page D.Page is offline
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Thanks LS.

If all your concern is confined to its ability to track with speeds other than SP, then I am OK with this limitation. I have virtually zero recordings that are not in SP mode.

It's not as good having a Sharpness control buried in the menu and with coarse steps of sharpness, instead of the slider with my Panasonic NV-HS1000 where I can set it anywhere I want. Oh well, you can't have everything, I suppose.

It's a monster of a deck, visually. Reminds me of my old Grundig GV-280S S-VHS deck from BITD:

https://archiwum.allegro.pl/oferta/m...317399660.html
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  #4  
03-15-2019, 12:13 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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I haven't had any issues with SP tracking on JVCs aside from buzzing on Hi-Fi audio tracks on some units. Of all the JVC decks I have, ironically the DVHS one has the best EP tracking. The mechanism on that machine supports tape speeds slower than the standard NTSC EP speed, so it has to be more stable than most (used to play/record LS5 speed DVHS tapes). PAL region only had SP/LP, so maybe its not that big a deal.
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  #5  
03-15-2019, 01:26 PM
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JVC did add VHS EP speed to the PAL models at the very end but it was so late in the day, I don't think many had the facility.

The blunt truth is EP was more suited to NTSC territories anyway, with its inferior resolution compared to PAL.

Last edited by D.Page; 03-15-2019 at 01:54 PM.
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03-15-2019, 01:55 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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The linear tape speed of PAL SP recording was already fairly slow. PAL LP was around the same speed as NTSC EP. While PAL (and SECAM) had higher vertical resolution, its color resolution was halved in the vertical axis (why 4:2:0 encoding is well suited for it) and it also had lower temporal resolution (50Hz vs. 60Hz).
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  #7  
03-15-2019, 03:18 PM
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The 3D printing technology of today may not be able to 'directly' produce a replacement part.. but

Indirectly a gear might be within reach

One of the more famous 3D home fab system is using 3D as a stepping stone to produce 'molds' for fabrication

Injection Molding from 3D Printed Molds
  • How desktop 3D printers can be used with injection molding machines
  • Creating molds in-house to produce small, functional parts for final products
Unless there is some type of break through in material science in the next few years, this might be what finally makes 3D practical for small scale production of repair parts.
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  #8  
03-15-2019, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
While PAL (and SECAM) had higher vertical resolution, its color resolution was halved in the vertical axis
As the human eye detects detail in the luminance aspect of vision much more keenly than in the chrominance aspect of vision, this is no big deal really.
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  #9  
03-15-2019, 05:36 PM
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From personal, first hand, long-term experience with these — if you're not going to do any DVHS transfers, you'll be better off with the HR-S9600EU/EK.
They tend to put out a (slightly, but noticeably) better image in SP VHS/SVHS. And, perhaps more crucially, the deck mecha / tape transport is smoother (less crappy). HM-DR10000s and their Philips rebadges have a well-known apetite for chewing tapes.

Exceptions I've encontered, though: a ‘sacrificial’ HM-DR10000 (on which the D-VHS mode/board was broken) was able to give the best VHS/SVHS I've ever seen on PAL-land. And then, something similar happened with a VR-20D of mine (also troublesome in D-VHS) after having it mechanically ‘tweaked’: we've never fully sorted out the D-VHS issues, but now the VHS/SVHS playback quality is remarkable and almost w/o head switching noise...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
...HR-S9600-9911 dynamic drums are all failing like Panasonic caps these days. One of my favorite decks, but this is getting to be a problem...
Just a minor point/remainder, Lord: HR-S9600U and HR-S9600EU (EG/EK) models are not direct NTSC/PAL equivalents. IIRC, 9600U ≈ 8600EU

Last edited by Tester; 03-15-2019 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #10  
03-16-2019, 01:45 AM
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I would have assumed it would be imperitive that D-VHS decks have to have the most robust, stable transports of any domestic video recorder for trouble-free D-VHS recording/playback, and if so, using them with S-VHS and VHS tape recording/playback would benefit from such transports too.
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03-16-2019, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tester View Post
HR-S9600EU/EK. They tend to put out a (slightly, but noticeably) better image in SP VHS/SVHS. And, perhaps more crucially, the deck mecha / tape transport is smoother (less crappy). HM-DR10000s and their Philips rebadges have a well-known apetite for chewing tapes.

Just a minor point/remainder, Lord: HR-S9600U and HR-S9600EU (EG/EK) models are not direct NTSC/PAL equivalents. IIRC, 9600U ≈ 8600EU
Yep and yep.

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  #12  
03-16-2019, 06:43 AM
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@D.Page: These JVC/Philips PAL D-VHS decks may be ‘‘more stable’’ (speedwise?) to cope with the slower LS3 D-VHS mode, but ‘‘more robust’’ (both in the sense of reliability/durability and tape handling) they are NOT. Definitely.
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03-17-2019, 06:57 PM
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I've just purchased a JVC HR-S9600EU, from an eBay seller based in Germany.

It had just been put up on eBay (I've been keeping a frequent eye out these last few days). Was looking at one from a seller in France. Curiously, the on/standby and (drawbridge) open buttons were labelled in french, with all other buttons in English. Was concerned that the on screen menu system might have been in the french language.

Anyway, this one I've just bought appears to be in very nice condition. Slightly annoying is that this model (like many if not all JVC VCRs) uses a non-removable mains lead. So, I have a lead with a continental 2-pin plug on the end. We have a JVC HR-S5967EK, obviously with a UK 3-pin non-removable mains lead so may just swap it over. I take it it's simply soldered in, under the cover. Either that, or I'll have to chop off the 2-pin plug and get a UK 3 pin plug.

Will post how I get on with it, in due course.
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03-23-2019, 08:11 AM
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Seem to have a problem.

Just received my JVC HR-S9600EU. As it has a 2 pin European plug, I connected this plug with a spare European 2 pin to UK 3 pin adapter that I kept from a scanner I had from Germany that also was able to be used with the UK mains, via this adapter.

Upon turning on the mains supply, the 9600's internal fuse instantly blows. Took out the internal fuse inside my HR-S5967EK and swapped fuses. Tried powering up again. The internal fuse instantly blows again.

I'm not in the habit of purchasing VCR models designed for use in mainland Europe, but with the ability to be used with the UK mains system (240volts/50Hz), but only via an adapter as it comes fitted with a European 2 Pin plug.

I have a feeling I have overlooked something very simple which has caused this?

Any help would be appreciated.

Images of the adapter I tried to use:
https://postimg.cc/SnSy0H7x
https://postimg.cc/WhC4Bsb6
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  #15  
03-23-2019, 09:28 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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240V Shouldn't be an issue, most european equipment is rated to tolerate 220-240 V. The two JVC vcrs I have sitting here specify 220-240 50/60 Hz on the label even.

There could be some bad component, I have a JVC S-VHS (granted one of the latest made in china ones) deck here I picked up that had a blown fuse. When looking at the power supply part, the big 400V capacitor has a big hole in it. Maybe yours also have a blown cap or something else that causes a short.
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  #16  
03-23-2019, 09:40 AM
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Here's the technical info on the rear:
https://postimg.cc/9z88jQRk

It's designed to work with a 240volt/50Hz mains supply, so is it also other people's opinion that the issue here points to faulty component(s) within the unit? I should mention that my European 2 pin to UK 3 pin adapter has its own fuse, rated at 3A (which survived both blows to internal fuse of the HR-S9600EU).

I now have to source another internal fuse for both this new HR-S9600EU and my HR-S5967EK, just to get back to square one

I'll have a look around inside to verify that all of the components show no obvious sign of damage.
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  #17  
03-23-2019, 10:50 AM
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Please attach images to posts.

That VCR power issue is not normal.

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  #18  
03-23-2019, 11:39 AM
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Here's the relevant section, with internal fuse removed, showing surrounding area.


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  #19  
03-23-2019, 11:45 AM
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Here's a better image.


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  #20  
03-23-2019, 11:59 AM
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Last photo.


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