Quantcast TBC-1000 front panel cover? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
05-18-2019, 10:17 PM
pavilion pavilion is offline
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Anyone know what's behind the round black cover next to the S-Video input? I assume it's even unused or for another country?
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  #2  
05-18-2019, 10:25 PM
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The TBC-1000 case was previously used for "several" DataVideo products.

Its a large case however, and after they released the PCI "shaped" card for the PC that included the TBC-100 circuitry.

They "spliced" the TBC-100 power supply into the power supply for a VP-199 distribution amplifier.. which the case was originally designed for... and walla.. the TBC "mark" 1000 was born.

Its no deep dark secret or anything, hit the market just before the Turn of the Century and everyone was running around like Chicken little crying Y2K, Y2K.. ect..

Its mostly a steel box though.. with a faceplate. I've been hoping someone with a 3D printer could print a better one.. maybe one that allows using the TBC while by-passing the distribution amp (its caps tend to drift and "fuzz" the image over time) or adding in a switch ect..

Injection molded plastic is still structural king though.. 3D parts just aren't that hard unless your Elon Must and have a metal based 3D printer. We could really use that for printing small parts like gears.
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  #3  
05-18-2019, 10:30 PM
pavilion pavilion is offline
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So the TBC-1000 is literally a TBC-100 card with an adapted power supply? So what is behind the sticker? A switch of some kind?

You'd think at some point during its lifetime they would have plugged the hole in the next production run of the cases.
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  #4  
05-18-2019, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavilion View Post
So the TBC-1000 is literally a TBC-100 card with an adapted power supply? So what is behind the sticker? A switch of some kind?
Just a hole.. I've thought of running a small cable through it.. but never bothered.
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05-18-2019, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavilion View Post
You'd think at some point during its lifetime they would have plugged the hole in the next production run of the cases.
Nah.. it would cost too much for a low end product. DataVideo was known for its more expensive Broadcast gear and dabbled in the prosumer market. Taking the time to invest in redesigning a faceplate would have struck down the margins. A black sticker was far cheaper.

The good thing about the box was it could dissipate heat better than plastic. The bad thing was the heat sink wasn't connected to the case, and there was no fan and many chips didn't have heat fins. So thermal care was kind of fail.. but I don't think they really planned these to last 30-40 years.
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05-18-2019, 10:34 PM
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What kind of cable would you run, are there connectors inside the box for some purpose?
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  #7  
05-18-2019, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavilion View Post
What kind of cable would you run, are there connectors inside the box for some purpose?
The TBC-100 had soundblaster audio cable connectors which bridge the gap to the VP-199 distribution amp board. In theory you could run one of those cables out through the port without mangling the case and to some kind of RCA cinch breakout board on a typical electronic geek breadboard.

Ugly as all get out.. but would be serviceable.. and in theory avoid the par roasted capacitor problem in the distribution amp. Some people would just get the caps replaced.. a proper solution.. but I overthink things sometimes..
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05-18-2019, 10:47 PM
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Uh.... the "par roasted capacitor problem"?!

I'm new here so... is this some known issue in using a TBC-1000 that I need to be aware of when sending the signals to a AIW 9800 card?
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  #9  
05-18-2019, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavilion View Post
Uh.... the "par roasted capacitor problem"?!

I'm new here so... is this some known issue in using a TBC-1000 that I need to be aware of when sending the signals to a AIW 9800 card?
Lol.. probably no

Especially if you got your TBC-1000 from LordSmurf.

Over time all caps dry out or "drift" the more heated the environment the sooner it happens, the smaller the cap the longer it takes.. but eventually they all reach end of life.. and have to be replaced.

Caps in audio and video equipment simply die a natural death and have to be "serviced" after many years.

This is no different for PC motherboards, or caps in an air conditioner.. it just happens. Its not usually bad design.. but bad design can accelerate the decay.

When they go bad whatever they were being use for tends to suffer. Caps in a power supply can "pop" or stop providing good clean power. Caps in a distribution amp can stop filtering noise.. and let it seep into the signal path.. or do bizarre things like start "singing" into the signal path and "make" additional noise. That causes visual softening or "fuzz".

The shorter the signal path, the less things in it to go wrong.. the better.. by-passing the distribution amp entirely is less to go wrong.. less to worry about.. but inconvenient with the TBC-1000.

Bottom line if it looks good I wouldn't worry about it.

If you'd like to worry about something you have control over though.. keep an eye on the external power supply.. those go bad (all the freaking time).. people plug them into the wall with no protection, and they are designed to be cheap and do not last many years.

Seasoned experts replace their external wall bricks frequently.. but you want to be sure its the right adapter because they have Polarity.. the tip could be (+) or it could be (-) mix those up and you could blow it out or burn it out. Also those wall adapters are kept cheap by under powering them. Make sure they can provide enough Volts and Amps for your task.

Many times.. okay.. a Lot of time.. people think their TBC-1000 is toast.. and all it was was the wall adapter power supply had died (uh..gin).
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  #10  
05-18-2019, 11:13 PM
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Is that a function purely of stagnant age or of use? Would an unused TBC-1000 have the same potential capacitor issues as one the same age but used more often?
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  #11  
05-18-2019, 11:20 PM
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Simple answer is Yes.. simple age.

A cap is basically a "battery" like the one in your phone. Except it lasts many more years.

Generally people ignore cap issues until they become a problem, and then seek an expert to help them.. you can't really test them "in-circuit" so usually all you can do is remove and replace them.. and that's a lot of soldering and work best left up to professionals.

People could entirely ignore the problem in the past because usually they threw away the device before it became a problem.

But when using thousand year old electrical devices with "magical" properties.. its become a problem that creeps up and can be hard to ignore.

More and more of the "survivor" TBC-1000's that have made it into the 21st Century have already had a transfusion of new parts and you don't have to worry about it.

Mummified TBC-1000s found in a tomb might work.. but can just as easily be dead from neglect.. even brand new, the paste in the capacitors has a "Weak" charge that determines if its a positive or negative side. If this isn't maintained by passing charge over it from time to time.. it can "forget" and this can lead to caps that "pop" when they are first powered up after millennia.. they don't recover. But they can be replaced.

If it does work.. even weakly after being "woke up" you need to leave it powered on for about 10 minutes to help it recover.. and keep doing that from time to time to nurse it back to health... but fair warning.. even ancient sleeping TBC's caps had a clock ticking.. they may still die sooner than later and need a cap transfusion to bring them back to life.
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  #12  
05-19-2019, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavilion View Post
Anyone know what's behind the round black cover next to the S-Video input? I assume it's even unused or for another country?
Another country?
No, it's not used for anything. It's just a hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
The TBC-1000 case was previously used for "several" DataVideo products.
It actually was not a "TBC-1000 case" at all, but was made for the VP-299 distribution amp (aka fancy 4-way audio/video splitter).

Quote:
They "spliced" the TBC-100 power supply into the power supply for a VP-199 distribution amplifier.. which the case was originally designed for... and walla.. the TBC "mark" 1000 was born.
That's half true.

The TBC-100 is actually the VP-301x card. The TBC-100 version had the molex connection for PC power, and different board components. There was also multiple variations of the TBC-1000, each with variations of the VP-301 in use.

The VP-301 TBC board was married to the VP-299 distro amp. It wasn't just slaved to power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
In theory you could run one of those cables out through the port without mangling the case and to some kind of RCA cinch breakout board on a typical electronic geek breadboard.
Ugly as all get out.. but would be serviceable..
Members here have already done this, posted about it on the site in years past.

Quote:
and in theory avoid the par roasted capacitor problem in the distribution amp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavilion View Post
I'm new here so... is this some known issue in using a TBC-1000 that I need to be aware of
I've never seen/experieced, or read about, TBC-1000 caps issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
Over time all caps dry out or "drift" the more heated the environment the sooner it happens, the smaller the cap the longer it takes.. but eventually they all reach end of life.. and have to be replaced.
FYI, I'm more worried about the chips in TBCs, not caps.

Quote:
Seasoned experts replace their external wall bricks frequently
Also never heard of this. Only replaced when failing or failed.

Quote:
Mummified TBC-1000s
I think you're scaring pavilion for no reason.

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  #13  
05-19-2019, 01:20 AM
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Yes.. there is no reason to focus on "Edge" cases where only a few people have had problems.

My brother always says "it makes No sense to pay interest on a Loan you don't have to take out.. where worry is concerned"
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  #14  
05-19-2019, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
Yes.. there is no reason to focus on "Edge" cases where only a few people have had problems.
Every rule has exceptions.
I get pissed at people that either (1) think "rules are rules", or (2) focus on the <1% that is the exception.

With one particular offline person, conversations like this often happen:
- Her: <asinine scenario>
- Me: "That won't happen."
- Her: "Yes it can, I saw it on <asinine TV show>. It happens!"
- Me: "If you have that sort of luck, go buy a lottery ticket. Because the odds are the same."

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  #15  
05-19-2019, 05:14 AM
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Well that makes me feel better. Then, however, why resort to the cable mod to bypass the splitter, unless you know there is an issue? Is there some inherent flaw in the distribution amp board to avoid, or did these folks who talk about it have a specific problem?

Also, while on the subject of the distribution amp board, is there any reason why I can't have a couple of other devices attached to the outputs at the same time as the AIW 9800 card for testing or other purpose? For example, leading to a DVD recorder or even another PC or capture device?

In other words, does using a 2nd or 3rd output set from the TBC-1000 adversely affect the output from the first set, such that I would want to avoid doing this? Seems silly to have to run a 2 hour tape 2 or 3 times when I can do the job all at once, no?

Seems to me the box was built for that purpose, but thought I would ask the pros here.
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