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  #41  
03-10-2020, 08:57 AM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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One more thing i haven't thought of.. Does this card have to be connected to the PSU? or does it receive it's power from the motherboard?
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  #42  
03-10-2020, 03:19 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Tape View Post
One more thing i haven't thought of.. Does this card have to be connected to the PSU? or does it receive it's power from the motherboard?
It probably just gets power from the motherboard, but it might need a separate connection.
If it does, it will be a 4 pin connector near the top of and at the far end of the card (away from the bracketed end).

If this is what your card looks like you will need the connector.
9000_Qmark.jpg

However, I think that is a mislabeled 9800 Pro now on eBay but I may be wrong. It looks just like a 9800...

In any case, if your card needs a separate power connection it will most likely require a "4 pin mini molex" connector like this to attach at the green arrow in the pic above.
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Older power supplies included them in the main loom (for 3-1/2" drives, etc.). Newer ones include adapter cables to convert a standard 4 pin molex or a SATA power connector to the mini molex.

If indeed your card needs the separate connection, that might explain why the motherboard cannot find it.

However, if it does not need the cable, then with the BIOS set to AGP/PCI and a monitor connected only to the AIW, the PC should boot up, show any boot text screens and allow you to enter the BIOS, etc. with no drivers at all. As stated earlier, without any drivers installed, it should also start and run Windows using the default Microsoft VGA driver. If you are getting nothing but a black screen and you know the motherboard, monitor, monitor cable, etc. are all good, then you may well have a bad AIW.

Do you have any other AGP graphics cards (of ANY kind) that you could try with the motherboard, monitor and cables you have? This would check for the possibility that there is something wrong with one of those components. If you can confirm that they all work with a different AGP card, and the AIW does not, then I think it's time to look for another card.

BW


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  #43  
03-11-2020, 01:00 PM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
It probably just gets power from the motherboard, but it might need a separate connection.
If it does, it will be a 4 pin connector near the top of and at the far end of the card (away from the bracketed end).

If this is what your card looks like you will need the connector.
Attachment 11432

However, I think that is a mislabeled 9800 Pro now on eBay but I may be wrong. It looks just like a 9800...

In any case, if your card needs a separate power connection it will most likely require a "4 pin mini molex" connector like this to attach at the green arrow in the pic above.
Attachment 11431

Older power supplies included them in the main loom (for 3-1/2" drives, etc.). Newer ones include adapter cables to convert a standard 4 pin molex or a SATA power connector to the mini molex.

If indeed your card needs the separate connection, that might explain why the motherboard cannot find it.

However, if it does not need the cable, then with the BIOS set to AGP/PCI and a monitor connected only to the AIW, the PC should boot up, show any boot text screens and allow you to enter the BIOS, etc. with no drivers at all. As stated earlier, without any drivers installed, it should also start and run Windows using the default Microsoft VGA driver. If you are getting nothing but a black screen and you know the motherboard, monitor, monitor cable, etc. are all good, then you may well have a bad AIW.

Do you have any other AGP graphics cards (of ANY kind) that you could try with the motherboard, monitor and cables you have? This would check for the possibility that there is something wrong with one of those components. If you can confirm that they all work with a different AGP card, and the AIW does not, then I think it's time to look for another card.

BW
The white 4 pin connector is on my card, but it's next to the metal Phillips box. I ordered a new identical card from the US, so if i can get this one working with a connector cable before it arrives, then i guess i'll have a backup. I'll try not to think of it as a waste of money, even though shipping was very expensive!
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  #44  
03-11-2020, 02:38 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Careful!

I think the white connectors near the tuner (metal box) are for audio. You'll damage the card if you hook up 12V to the audio connector(s).

Here's a pdf of the manual for a 9800. Note the power connection information on page 13 and the "optional audio connection" information on page 51. Most if not all of the 7000 - 9xxx seried AIW's had these internal audio connectors on them. Their use is optional as a way to pass through the audio to the sound card.

ALL-IN-WONDER_9800_series.pdf

BW


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  #45  
03-11-2020, 05:14 PM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Not to worry, i haven't connected anything yet. Though the card must be buggered anyway!

That's handy that i can connect the audio to the sound card internally, though i do that externally though the loopback method with the audio cables. I wonder if one yields better sound quality over the other though, or both have the same result?
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  #46  
03-11-2020, 06:34 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Good discussion here:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...dio-cable.html

All three options have some pros and cons, but all can work fine.
Going through the AIW input cable is convenient but requires the right internal cable or the use of the somewhat special AV output cable of the AIW (so you need the purple input one and black "squid" output one). Using the direct connection to the sound card Line-in requires a common RCA to mini-stereo Y-cable.

I've done it all three ways and have always been able to monitor the sound during capture withour enabling audio playback. I think it may depend on the sound card drivers and settings.

Hope your new card works!

BW
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  #47  
03-27-2020, 01:34 AM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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My card finally arrived. Plugged in the monitor, all came on fine. So put it off and left it for a few days. I resumed setup a few days later, plugged in the other cables into it, turned it on but getting absolutely nothing on my monitor, just like before with my first card. Removed the cables (besides the monitor) restarted a couple of times, and got a picture again! Installed the software and and this time it asked me to restart my computer, and low and behold all the programs were installed successfully, Though curiously STILL getting the yellow exclamation mark issue in the Device Manager. So just thought nothing of it, and try and test a capture in Virtual Dub. So turned off my computer and reinserted the purple cable and audio cable looped to the sound card. Turned it back on, and yes you guessed it.. no image of my monitor yet again.
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  #48  
03-27-2020, 09:58 AM
JPMedia JPMedia is offline
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Hey Master Tape, what monitor are you using? I know the ATI All in Wonder 9200 only supports up to 1920x1080 resolution.
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  #49  
03-27-2020, 12:22 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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This sounds to me like a hardware problem. At least that's what I'd check first.
If you unplug all of the special AIW cables do you get back the image on the monitor?
Assuming so, I recommend trying to isolate the problem. Maybe one of the cables is bad, even shorting out to ground. Or one of the devices you are connecting to that cable is bad. Try making each connection to the AIW and sound card one at a time to see if any one connection causes the monitor to go black. Images of the connections you are making might also be useful.

For example after disconnecting everything:

- Connect purple cable to AIW (not connected to anything else). OK? Disconnect and try next:

- Connect black "squid" cable to AIW (not connected to anything else). OK? Disconnect and try next:

- Check the sound card for functionality with some other "line level" device connected to the blue line-in of
the sound card (headphone jack from an old CD/mp3 player or something). Can you get sound out of the PC speakers or headphones?

- Reconnect black "squid" connector to AIW and connect audio loop back to sound card line in (blue). OK? Try next:

- Reconnect purple input cable to AIW and:

- Connect video input device (camcorder, vcr, etc.) to s-video (or composite) connector on purple "box".

- Connect audio of input device to purple box.
etc. etc.

Does any one connection cause the monitor to go black?

Assuming you get the monitor working again, an updated image of device manager might be helpful in understanding the exclamation mark.

BW

Last edited by BW37; 03-27-2020 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Typos...
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  #50  
01-03-2022, 12:17 PM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Sorry guys, my room got swamped with stuff not long after my last post and i literally had no room to work with so had to put this off for a while. But now have space again after additional storage became available.

Anyway it's been years now so i'd like to get this finished once and for all

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPMedia View Post
Hey Master Tape, what monitor are you using? I know the ATI All in Wonder 9200 only supports up to 1920x1080 resolution.
It's an Acer AL1716 with a max res of 1280x1024.
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  #51  
01-03-2022, 12:27 PM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW37 View Post
This sounds to me like a hardware problem. At least that's what I'd check first.
If you unplug all of the special AIW cables do you get back the image on the monitor?
Assuming so, I recommend trying to isolate the problem. Maybe one of the cables is bad, even shorting out to ground. Or one of the devices you are connecting to that cable is bad. Try making each connection to the AIW and sound card one at a time to see if any one connection causes the monitor to go black. Images of the connections you are making might also be useful.

For example after disconnecting everything:

- Connect purple cable to AIW (not connected to anything else). OK? Disconnect and try next:

- Connect black "squid" cable to AIW (not connected to anything else). OK? Disconnect and try next:

- Check the sound card for functionality with some other "line level" device connected to the blue line-in of
the sound card (headphone jack from an old CD/mp3 player or something). Can you get sound out of the PC speakers or headphones?

- Reconnect black "squid" connector to AIW and connect audio loop back to sound card line in (blue). OK? Try next:

- Reconnect purple input cable to AIW and:

- Connect video input device (camcorder, vcr, etc.) to s-video (or composite) connector on purple "box".

- Connect audio of input device to purple box.
etc. etc.

Does any one connection cause the monitor to go black?

Assuming you get the monitor working again, an updated image of device manager might be helpful in understanding the exclamation mark.

BW
All i have plugged in is the monitor itself and the keyboard. Still blank.
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  #52  
01-04-2022, 06:54 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Hello again. I just read through the whole thread to get back up to speed. I still think this is a hardware problem so it appears you need to do basic PC hardware debug first. Can you list all of the hardware involved in your system at this point? Somehow jwillis84 figured out you have an Asrock 775i65G motherboard. Which version? I know you've tried 2 different AIW's and to me, the problems seem similar with both, correct?

For now just throwing some things out there... Try "reseating" the video card and maybe everything else in the system that's relatively easy (other cards, cables, etc.). Also, confirm that the monitor and cable (and DVI to HDMI adapter) are working using another system? Does the PC still work if you go back to the onboard video via VGA?

BW
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  #53  
01-07-2022, 10:54 AM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Hi BW, thanks for taking the time to read the thread.

Having opened it up inside, it has the following components..

Bitfenix Whisper M Series 550W 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply
Cooler Master Hyper 212X (CPU fan/ heatsink)
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 CPU
ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon 9000 64MB AGP DVI Video Card
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz CS4630 TB400-2541-02 PCI Soundcard
G.Skill PC-3200 Arbeitsspeicher 2GB (400 MHz, 184-polig) DDR-RAM
(Two 1GB RAM modules i believe)
Western Digital Caviar Blue 3.5" 320GB HDD 7200 RPM (WD3200AAKS)
Seagate Barracuda 3.5" 7200.14 500GB HDD 7200 RPM (ST500DM002)
Sony DVD-ROM Drive
Rear and front fans
And the Asrock 775i65G motherboard version is R3.0

I'll test the DVI to HDMI adapter on another system later, although i've been using an old Acer VGA monitor anyway for this PC. Though as mentioned earlier in the thread i've had to use a DVI to VGA adaptor in order to connect the video card to the VGA monitor, though maybe that's why it's not displaying? Am i better off getting another monitor that has a dedicated DVI port so we can bypass adaptors altogether?

And yes the PC still displays fine on the onboard video via VGA.

Also interestingly in the System Information, under Problem Devices it lists the Intel(R) 82865G Graphics Controller and states the device is disabled. I assume this must mean the ATI card?


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File Type: png Problem Devices.png (41.8 KB, 6 downloads)
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  #54  
01-07-2022, 01:20 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Master Tape,

Thanks for the new info. I hope you're a bit warmer there than we are in cold and windy Wisconsin!

I've now looked through the manual for your motherboard (R3.0) and it doesn't show the same graphics options. However, I do find them (PCI/AGP priority choice) in the R2.0 manual... In either case, there is no choice to actually disable the onboard graphics in the bios as was suggested earlier. That's probably to keep people from effectively disabling their systems if they have only onboard graphics (no additional graphics card). Anyway, I don't think this setting is going to make any difference except possibly a slightly slower boot time (for an AGP card) if set to the default PCI/AGP vs. AGP/PCI. I'm guessing it looks for both of these first and if not there, moves on to the onboard graphics and boots. If it finds either of these (AGP card or PCI card) it will boot with that card for graphics. To boot and chose a graphics device, it doesn't need any drivers in Windows, it's not there yet. But it appears to need to see both a graphics card AND a monitor attached to it to boot using something other than onboard graphics, effectively disabling onboard graphics at that level. At this point, we can't say whether the problem is in the motherboard to AGP connection, the AGP card or something in the connections/cabling to the monitor.

More questions:

1. What kind of adapter and monitor are you using at present? I'm confused as to whether you are using a DVI to VGA adapter or a DVI to HDMI adapter. Your Acer monitor looks like it would require the former (VGA only) but you mention DVI to HDMI.

If all the hardware is working, either a DVI/HDMI or DVI/VGA adapter should work with the appropriate cables and monitors (or of course a DVI cable and monitor). The AIW DVI port should support all 3. I've done it each way with the different monitor/AIW combos I've tried. In any case, confirming that the hardware you are using (adapter/cable/monitor) all work on another system would be useful if possible.

2. I'm assuming you are using the onboard graphics when you get the screen shot attached above. Correct? I think the problem device listing is because you disabled the Intel Graphics device in Windows. So Windows is falling back to the generic Windows VGA driver but it can "see" the disabled Intel device. If you re-enabled the Intel graphics, I think the errors would all go away. Of course that doesn't help us with the AIW at all

If you are getting that display using the AIW you're making progress and are back to AIW driver installation stuff.

BW
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  #55  
02-04-2022, 04:02 AM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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It's been quite a mild winter here thankfully, though there's still February!

Sorry for the late reply, i can't get the PC to power on at all now, since i dragged it across the carpet to test the adaptor on another monitor, the cable is shorter so needed it closer to the socket. Don't know if this has caused some sort of static discharge?

I'm using a DVI to VGA (SVGA HD15) adaptor. I bought it cheap second hand, not sure if it might be faulty and worth buying a new one?



Apologies i don't have DVI to HDMI, but a VGA to HDMI adaptor that is an active model. I got it after the other non-active adaptor i had didn't seem to work either. It works when i use the onboard graphics via VGA, but not when i connect DVI>VGA>HDMI via the ATI, but then probably too many adaptors in the chain.



Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20220202_144858.jpg (51.9 KB, 27 downloads)
File Type: jpg 20220202_144945.jpg (37.9 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: jpg 20220202_144938.jpg (40.6 KB, 1 downloads)
File Type: jpg VGA to HDMI.jpg (51.3 KB, 26 downloads)
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  #56  
02-04-2022, 12:45 PM
BW37 BW37 is offline
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Welcome back.

Here's hoping that static hasn't made things worse. I've never had a problem with static dealing with "intact" PC's, but it could happen, especially if handling/touching any of the I/O ports, etc. Once the case is open, carpets and cold/winter heat=dry conditions can definitely be trouble. When it hurts touch the grounded cover plate screw when turning on the light switch, stay away from all things electronic!

So to confirm, are you trying to use the built-in graphics or the AIW?

For the most basic troubleshooting, I'd start with the built-in graphics connected directly to the VGA monitor. Ideally, remove the AGP AIW card first but take static precautions: Unplug the PC from the mains, use a wrist ground strap to PC chassis. Before touching anything inside the PC, grab hold of the PC chassis. Ideally, have the PC chassis grounded to a house ground if possible but disconnected from the mains. I'm not sure how UK ground systems work. Maybe someone UK local can speak up to assist.

If the built in graphics won't work at all, then there are likely problems with the PC itself. It is possible that the built in graphics are bad, but it seemed they were working previously... If built in graphics work, then maybe try the VGA to HDMI adapter with the HDMI monitor. This would confirm that the adapter works (and the HDMI monitor). This might be useful, not sure.

Next, move on to trying the AIW AGP card using the DVI to VGA adapter on to the VGA monitor. Again use static precautions when handling and reinstalling the card.

Update your progress when you can.

BW
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