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Originally Posted by heavymod
I been looking at the buying guide - is there not a single Sony deck worth using? Even the ones with TBC?
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I'm not aware of any non-broadcast Sony decks with line TBC. That's why. Sony offers nothing that we needed to convert VHS to digital with any quality.
Orsetto, the resident VH curmudgeon, and I sound more and more similar these days. He was a pessimist a decade ago, but reality has caught up to him.
So, if you want a 2nd opinion:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...ys#post2239649
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Originally Posted by hodgey
The Sony one is a broadcast deck, i.e SP only, broadcast decks have not been included in the buying guide due to their limitations, and the EV-T2 seems to be very rare.
How the Sony S-VHS decks in general perform image-quality- and tracking-wise I can't speak for, as I haven't used any of them.
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Sony's decks were unremarkable, and almost all were early 90s decks. (Note that nothing from JVC/Panasonic, from the early 90s, is ever suggested either. The best gear is from the late 90s and early 00s.) The Video8/Hi8 decks are nothing special, and you'll generally have a better experience just using a good Video8/Hi8 camera.
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Originally Posted by VideoTechMan
There are some good high end Sony decks if you can find them in good running condition. The SLV-R1000 is one of those. You will just have to pair it with a good TBC to make it worthwhile.
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You can't "add a TBC". I wish. The closest we can come is to add the Panasonic ES10/15 for passthrough, but it's not transparent, not just TBC(ish). You get the negatives with the positive, such as posterization. The reason S-VHS VCRs are recommended, and only certain models therein, is because of line TBC.
Yes, the list has some non-TBC models, but those are not really "suggested", more like honorable mentions. Each has some interesting uses, nice cooperation with some tapes.
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Originally Posted by jwillis84
I believe Sony decks .... did not survive long in the resale market.
They also didn't share many components between designs or with other manufacturers so parts were very hard to come by in the after sale market.
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This was especially true of the consumer end decks. In the 90s, Sony's VHS decks (not S-VHS!) were generally better than JVC, Panasonic, Magnavox, and most others. Toshiba and Sharp were probably the only better decks, and in a class of their own. But the Sony didn't last. The power supply getting "zapped" (even on UPS) was the exact problem I experienced as well, twice.
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Originally Posted by heavymod
ok, thanks. I 'm pretty active buying from smaller auctions,
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Realize this is gambling. Nothing more, nothing less. Most sellers know nothing about video, and it "works" if the front panel lights up. Some actually stick a retail tape into the deck, and if they see any quality picture it is deemed as "working". However, rarely is it the case.
eBay is a VCR dumping ground, and probably 85% of all decks are outright bad, including many "working" and "tested" units. Of that final 15%, most get B-/C/F grades, meaning only good for SP at best. Heads are often shot. You have about a 1-2% chance of getting A- graded.
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Originally Posted by heavymod
I would have assumed broadcast decks were better
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Nope. Broadcast gear was generally abused. It was run 24/7, never enough maintenance, and not all employees were knowledgeable about video (interns, letting HS students use it, etc). Hobbyists generally take better care of their gear, as do small indy studios. General consumers are worse than broadcasters, between huffing cigarette smoke into the machines, no maintenance, and letting junior stick LEGO and grilled cheese sandwiches into the deck. When you buy broadcast gear, 99% odds it's trashed inside and out. Most is outright faulty now, flaky at best, and in serious need of a cleaning and maintenance. These days, most "broadcast gear" comes from college facilities, where it was doubly abused by coed novices.
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Originally Posted by jwillis84
You simply don't know what you don't know..
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That's one of the reason I now provide gear on the marketplace. I use my contacts to acquire nice lots, refurb as needed. I do all the work, take the mystery and gambling aspect out of the equation. My work, my vetting, known quality items.
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If you do buy, be sure to ship by FedEx, UPS at the worst.. and don't buy if its listed as shipping by USPS only. Your mileage may vary, but if they list by USPS only they aren't experienced or don't care and its probably junk.
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None of that is true.
The main problem is packaging properly. I use specific boxes and packing materials, and then pack the item in a specific way. For example, with JVC VCRs, you must protect the faceplate with 3x layers of bubble wrap. If you don't, odds are it'll arrive cracked, if not entirely smashed, as it's just plastic. Not just plastic, but resin-like, so it shatters easily. Then I use large labels. You've bought some of my gear, you've seen my packing work.
The shipper used makes no difference if packed poorly.
I exclusively use USPS because Fedex is infamous in my location, and they're not to be trusted. UPS drivers are notoriously rough with their items, and in too much of a hurry. UPS and Fedex also try to fight insurance claims, rather than fess up to their negligence, and try to weasel out of responsibility with legalese gibberish "fine print".
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TBC's are sometimes available in the market place on this forum, keep an eye out for them. LordSmurf will try to provide guidance and sometimes sells them.. but be careful.. and just forget it when it comes to auction sites.. they go for ridiculous astronomical prices and are probably broken.
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I have several at the moment.
The other aspect about TBCs is that model may not matter, chips do. So, for example, an AVT-8710 isn't necessarily an AVT-8710 you want. The green ones had the good chips, and the black the bad chips. But then you get into the clones, where you have to break seals, dismantle the units to verify chipsets. Which is what I do. And test extensively (a "burn in" test) to verify normal scenario usage. You can't just flip it on, see any image, and deem it to work.
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Some people have taken to buying DVRs an... they were perfectly passable pseudo TBCs. I say pseudo because they were never advertised as this.
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That's not what makes these pseudo, what I refer to as TBC(ish), but rather than the TBC functionality is compromised. Macrovision is allowed to pass. While some may say "I don't have retail tapes", this still does not matter. Macrovisino is an anti-copy, and anti-copy is simple an artificial video error. But real naturally-occurring errors can look like Macrovision, aka false Macrovision (false positive). So it's not a TBC, period. It can be, often acts close to one, but it cannot be trusted. You cannot walk away, and assume the conversion went fine. A more true TBC(ish) setup involves the modded DataVideo DVK or 5000 units, because that specific combo then does 99% of what a real TBC does. Though still with the downsides of the ES10/15 (posterization). Great budget option, shaves a few hundred bucks from a workflow.
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ps. I should clarify.. not (all) DVRs clean up the signal from Input to Output jacks.
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Most do not. Not just "not all".
And DVR = DVD recorders, an important distinction. I don't want somebody trying to hook up a TiVo or something, assuming it can be a TBC.
TBC is such a wide term, and manufacturers often played fast and loose with the term. As I like to joke, I sometimes wonder if my toaster has a TBC. Because it literally was that overused and abused. The ADVC is a perfect example of this, as the "TBC" inside really does almost nothing. The correction is so faint as to be worthless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymod
I buy and resell - when I'm talking about auction sites, I'm not talking about ebay. More like "Here is a pallet of electronics from a highschool audio department." or "here are 5 VCRs from this out of business company". So it really is a crap shoot - price usually isn't the limiting factor, it's shipping logistics or just time spent. So I do try and keep my eye out for nice stuff ( like AG-1980s ).
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Yes, offline auctions are where the good gear sometimes is. Years ago, I scored a stack of AG-1980, but all had to be recapped. I kept a pair of units for myself, sold the rest. Not much profit in it, since others did the recap work (and I had to pay for it), and it mostly just helped some members here get a guaranteed-good deck.
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I sort of assume I'll need to recap anything I get serious about - but looking at what Tgrant photo is doing - ug. That's a lot of damn work, and the mechanical part is definitely not part of my skillset. Would be cool to know more about the waveform analyzer and sourece tapes they are using. Thanks for pointing them out.
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Tom's attention to detail on the 1980 decks is really quite phenomenal. He re-did some of our decks in years past, and each was quality. Deter is pretty good as well, though TGrant's attention to detail is better. Tom is really careful about the video levels coming out to spec, which is the area where Deter needs improvement. I don't know what all he does, but it's more than just a caps job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84
Internal versus External are worlds apart.
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The KISS (keep it simple, stupid) definition is this:
- internal line TBC cleans the image
- external frame sync TBC cleans the signal
- you need both
In actuality, line has some signal correction, and frame has some image correction, but the bulk of the corrections are as stated. But this little extra tidbit of knowledge reinforces the idea that both are required.
Anyway, thread is meandering now... no Sony S-VHS deck is worthwhile. That's the take away.