Dropped frames, AV sync errors in VirtualDub? (no TBC)
 

Hi, I've been around at the DigitalFAQ in the past, but finally decided to create an account so I can join in the VHS digitizing talk.

My issue here today is that I am needing to digitize some VHS tapes containing recorded content from TV back in the day but I'm having issues with dropped frames and audio sync when it comes to digitizing VHS to digital interlaced AVI. I'm using my Startech.com SVID2USB23 dongle as my capture card.

I am aware that a TBC will make VHS digitizing easier and improve the picture quality, but those things are expensive and out of my budget. The VCRs that I am using are both Panasonic models, PV-9450 and PV-VS4820 (SVHS model). When only capping with the SVID2USB23, the picture is minty clean IMO (VCR heads are manually cleaned) and not jitter, it's just that analog corruptions jack up the frames and causes my audio to go off sync. I could manually adjust the audio in Premiere, but any frame jitter at any given time will bump the audio off and I don't have time nor interest to go deep in the video to fix the audio sync.

I'm sure this issue has been discussed a million times on the internet, but are there any possible ways to not have the AV sync go off [w/o the need of a TBC]? I know this sounds silly, not to sound stupid here. I'm sure a TBC may fix my issue here but again, on a budget here. Thanks.

Equipment:

Startech.com SVID2USB23
Panasonic PV-9450
Panasonic PV-VS4820

Computer Specs:

HP OMEN 17
Intel Core i7-7700HQ
16 GB RAM
NVidia GeForce GTX 1050 4GB
Intel HD Graphics 630
500 GB SSD (main storage)
2 TB HDD (secondary storage)
Windows 10 Home x64

First off, welcome to the forum!

And I'm sorry to say this but, you won't really be able to get away with VHS capturing without a TBC, there's just no way around it. And I don't know about the capture card you are using but I don't think that would be an ideal device either, as usually consumer based capture devices are really poor and just can't do the job. Its possible the device you have is causing the A/V sync issues.

If you read around on the forums, the ideal VHS capture system would be using a PC of the XP era, which had the best tools for VHS captures using the ATI AGP capture cards. I personally hate Windows 10, but unfortunately as part of my work (and at my local church) I have to deal with the OS. But XP is the preferred system for capture and without a TBC you won't get stable captures without dropping frames and such.

What kind of budget do you have? If you want a quality capture, you will need the right tools to do the job. Also having a VCR deck with a line TBC would be ideal, but you can't escape needing an external full frame TBC. Others here may chime in for sure.

I prefer not to spend over $100 for just external video equipment. Yeah, I would like videophile quality as much as possible without errors though my Startech does a good job, it's just I get these stupid AV sync errors and it's a pain in the Johnson to manually adjust the audio timeline. I could go with my Hauppauge HD PVR 1212 but the video quality is duller than the Startech capture. I want better if I had the money (I do but I'm saving for a new high-performance laptop). If I was lucky enough to find an external TBC or TBC VHS deck at an estate sale or Goodwill... I did tweak the timing settings in VD and I think I possibly solved my issue with dropped frames (probably not, but I'm not seeing any dropped/added frames in the stretch), can't confirm though. I wonder if I can connect a VCR to another VCR to bypass direct analog corruption (probably not going to work).

The image quality on my Startech is superb IMO if you want to see: (attached)

XP is one of the best or THE best Windows versions out there, I wish Microsoft didn't drop the support on it! If XP can be revived. If I had an old laptop around that accepts PCMCIA cards, I can get a DV PC card and cap video via DV than USB, but I would need a Canopus ADVC device, and probably a TBC as always.

No, that's no the function of a TBC.

Line TBC = clean the image
External framesync TBC = clean the signal
You need both.

At minimum, the external. There are some TBC(ish) options available, either a weak one (just ES10/15) or by pairing ES10/15 with DataVideo DVK or TBC-5000 (to get 99% TBC performance, though with ES10/15 drawbacks).

Your issue is lack of TBC, and it's unavoidable if you want to capture. This is the nature of consumer analog video.

The Startech SVID2USB23 is not really suggested. Better than an EZcap, but many cards are also better than this specific Startech. It has a problem with blowing out levels and colors.

I could get a DMR-ES10 or DMR-ES15 model from eBay, but what are the weaknesses of those two? I understand you said they're weak TBCs, meaning they don't sync up the signal as powerful as an external TBC? My budget is lurking more on the DVD recorders than ending up spending a grand for a simple TBC. I seriously wonder why these devices are worth half a grand... Do you recommend any cheap external TBCs, under the price of $150? These kinds of devices should sell for no more than $50 just to restore analog corruption IMHO.

Edit: I'm scouting for TBCs on eBay, but looking for one for an affordable price and can handle S-Video for SVHS digitizing. Possibly the Hotronic AP41, Prime Image TBC/Freeze II, FOR.A FA-310, Digital Video Systems DPS-170, or the Datavideo TBC-1000 (a little bit out of my price range for that one)...


That probably explains why the video looks a tad washed out sometimes. Maybe adjusting the brightness in the proc amp? I rather use a PCI capture card than USB, but my laptop here is my only computer so I'm stuck with USB. The Startech capture card is the best digitizer I have right now unless there's better in the cheap range ($100 or less). I was going to use an HDMI capture box to convert composite to HDMI so I wouldn't worry about dropped frames (probably won't solve my issue here), but the recording from the capture box resulted in a darker picture and low volume. Plus my CVBS to HDMI box had an issue displaying VHS tapes though it's not an issue with my equipment nor connections.

Why does a smart phone cost $100s of dollars? It's the tech inside. ;)

A TBC is not a "forever purchase", you don't buy it, use it, and then put it in a drawer. Unlike a phone, it's not obsolete and worthless with no resale value. This is a project-based purchase. Buy it, use it, resell it. It will hold value.

For a "$100 or less" budget, there are ATI 600 USB and clones. And I have some available in the marketplace.

The proc amp only goes so far, when the capture card is destroying quality.