Quantcast Best lossy capturing software to us with VC500? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
07-30-2019, 07:01 PM
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I've decided to not bother with capturing loseless using VD, it seems completely unnecessary since my sources are "good enough" and I don't need to bother doing any editing or post-cleanup. So I was wondering what is the best lossy capturing software to use with the Diamond VC500? Should I just use the software it comes with or is there a better alternative? I'm assuming MPEG-2 would be the best choice for "lossy" capturing?
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  #2  
07-31-2019, 12:39 AM
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The best lossy solution is probably a DVD recorder with HDD that IsoBuster supports for reading the drive to retrieve the recordings. In fact you could treat the HDD like a VHS tape and shelve it until your ready to read it later, swapping in a new HDD as needed.. as long as you bought a copy of IsoBuster to use when you finally decide to copy the recordings to a PC.

Since that works on Windows XP through W10 and on a Mac and Linux its about as generic and lazy a method as you could get. Even if you don't plan to post process.. however.. I would recommend recording at the highest bit rate the recorder is capable of capturing at.

Last edited by jwillis84; 07-31-2019 at 12:56 AM.
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  #3  
07-31-2019, 12:52 AM
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I'm aware that the JVC DR-M10 and DR-M100 are both excellent DVD Recorders for capturing, however, I'm looking to capture directly to my PC using my Diamond VC500. Are you suggesting that using a DVD Recorder is a better solution?
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  #4  
07-31-2019, 01:13 AM
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A Diamond or any Capture device that does not have hardware compression assist is still going to require full Uncompressed bandwidth to the PC. Then the CPU of the PC will have to perform the compression no matter which codec you decide to use. Or you will have have to capture Uncompressed, then compress later.

The JVC DR-M10 and DR-M100 have a file system on them which I kind of understand.. but not well enough to suggest to the IsoBuster author that it be supported. They are not supported at this time.

Last edited by jwillis84; 07-31-2019 at 02:09 AM.
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  #5  
07-31-2019, 02:14 AM
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Hmm, very interesting, I wasn't expecting this sort of response. I suppose I don't really have a problem capturing loseless first and then compressing, but I just assumed it would be quicker to capture directly to a lossy format.

I'm very familiar with IsoBuster and have used it in the past. Although now a days I use makemkv for all my blu-ray and DVD ripping needs. Have you tried using it on discs created by the DR-M10 and DR-M100?

One thing that has me questioning your advice about NOT using the VC500, is that I have done some preliminary testing with some hardware I have here at home right now. That workflow consists of a Crappy Memorex VCR > Composite Cable > WinTV-HVR 950Q > PC, and then capturing lossy using the WinTV software. Now as crappy as that workflow might be, I have gotten very acceptable results! So I can't imagine how having better hardware is going to make my workflow any worse? Not once did I experience any "lock-up's" or "quits" at any time. But then again, it could be because I'm using Windows 7 and not that abomination Windows 10.

Right now I'm waiting for some new equipment to arrive, JVC S9800 VCR, Diamond VC500, and a Sony DCR-TRV460 D8 Camcorder. I've got about 12 VHS tapes I need to convert, and about 15 Hi8/8mm tapes to convert as well.

For the Hi8/8mm tapes I planned on using the TRV460 > Firewire > PC, capturing lossy using WinDV.

For the VHS tapes I planned on using the S9800 > S-Video > VC500 > PC, and then capturing lossy MPEG-2.

Now the Camcorder that I ordered also has the ability to go from Analog to Digital so another workflow I have considered for the VHS conversion is, S9800 > S-Video > TRV460 > Firewire > PC.

BTW my computer is custom built, i7 3.4GHz, 32GB RAM, GeForce RTX 2070, m.2 SSD for the OS drive, a couple of SATA SSD's for various things (virtual machines, encoding etc.), and I've got two 10TB HDD's as well.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
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07-31-2019, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
Hmm, very interesting, I wasn't expecting this sort of response.
USB cards like the VC500 are strictly lossless only.

Yes, there is really low-end crappy software like ArcSoft ShowBiz, but it's seriously so terrible that you may as well not even bother transferring the videos.

AIW ATI, and some older specific Hauppauge cards, are really the only viable non-$1k cards that capture to lossy formats, namely MPEG in this case. H264/AVC cards expect non-analog sources.

Quote:
I'm very familiar with IsoBuster and have used it in the past. Although now a days I use makemkv for all my blu-ray and DVD ripping needs. Have you tried using it on discs created by the DR-M10 and DR-M100?
jwillis point about ISOBuster is that he and Mr. ISOBuster have been attempting to make it to where you no longer need discs to transfer off any HDD recorder. Just plug the drive into the computer, and let ISOBuster transfer the contents. It's worked well for some recorders, just not yet any that are also the best units for transferring tapes (ie JVC LSI).

Quote:
One thing that has me questioning your advice about NOT using the VC500, is that I have done some preliminary testing with some hardware I have here at home right now. That workflow consists of a Crappy Memorex VCR > Composite Cable > WinTV-HVR 950Q > PC, and then capturing lossy using the WinTV software. Now as crappy as that workflow might be, I have gotten very acceptable results! So I can't imagine how having better hardware is going to make my workflow any worse?
I'd want to see your idea of "acceptable".
- That VCR will probably output an image with visual timing wiggles and chroma noise/flaws/issues.
- That 950Q capture card cooks values.
- Composite creates dot crawl and chroma/color bleed.

I would be beyond surprised if it was truly a quality signal.

Quote:
Not once did I experience any "lock-up's" or "quits" at any time. But then again, it could be because I'm using Windows 7 and not that abomination Windows 10.
When it comes to video capture, lockups/quits could mean two things:
(1) halt due to anti-copy
(2) capture driver problems

Unsure which you mean.

Quote:
Right now I'm waiting for some new equipment to arrive, JVC S9800 VCR, Diamond VC500, and a Sony DCR-TRV460 D8 Camcorder. I've got about 12 VHS tapes I need to convert, and about 15 Hi8/8mm tapes to convert as well.
A workflow is SVHS VCR with line TBC > external frame TBC > quality capture card.
You're missing the external TBC. Lack of TBC usually leads to quality and captureability issues.

Quote:
For the Hi8/8mm tapes I planned on using the TRV460 > Firewire > PC, capturing lossy using WinDV.
It is lossy, you'll lose 50% of the color quality, but if that's what you want, that workflows works.

Quote:
For the VHS tapes I planned on using the S9800 > S-Video > VC500 > PC, and then capturing lossy MPEG-2.
You cannot capture MPEG-2 with the VC500 card. It does not support it. Some low-end capture software will encode on-the-fly to limited spec MPEG, but quality will be quite terrible.

Quote:
Now the Camcorder that I ordered also has the ability to go from Analog to Digital so another workflow I have considered for the VHS conversion is, S9800 > S-Video > TRV460 > Firewire > PC.
Again, that's a DV workflow. You will lose 50% of your color (4:1:1), and VHS color is pretty lousy to begin with. Lack of external TBC may still be an issue.

Quote:
BTW my computer is custom built, i7 3.4GHz, 32GB RAM, GeForce RTX 2070, m.2 SSD for the OS drive, a couple of SATA SSD's for various things (virtual machines, encoding etc.), and I've got two 10TB HDD's as well.
Nice. I don't need fancy graphics cards, but the rest of your specs are close to my own, for my primary editing system.

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  #7  
07-31-2019, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
USB cards like the VC500 are strictly lossless only.

Yes, there is really low-end crappy software like ArcSoft ShowBiz, but it's seriously so terrible that you may as well not even bother transferring the videos.

AIW ATI, and some older specific Hauppauge cards, are really the only viable non-$1k cards that capture to lossy formats, namely MPEG in this case. H264/AVC cards expect non-analog sources.
That's fine then, I can just capture lossless and then encode. I typically use handbrake for encoding, but I know you had mentioned in other threads to stay away from MP4 when dealing with analog sources. What encoding software and codec do you suggest for lossy encodes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
jwillis point about ISOBuster is that he and Mr. ISOBuster have been attempting to make it to where you no longer need discs to transfer off any HDD recorder. Just plug the drive into the computer, and let ISOBuster transfer the contents. It's worked well for some recorders, just not yet any that are also the best units for transferring tapes (ie JVC LSI).
Ahh ok, Thanks for the clarification on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
I'd want to see your idea of "acceptable".
- That VCR will probably output an image with visual timing wiggles and chroma noise/flaws/issues.
- That 950Q capture card cooks values.
- Composite creates dot crawl and chroma/color bleed.

I would be beyond surprised if it was truly a quality signal.
Remember, I said "acceptable" not "perfect" lol. Obviously "acceptable" is a very subjective term. I started this capture project with the mindset of just being glad to capture anything at all, I'm honestly not concerned with obtaining studio quality captures. I decided to buy the S9800 to help clean up some of the minor issues, and a VC500 since it's praised a lot more around here than the Hauppauge 950Q I have. I have also considered purchasing an ES10 if I end up needing it, but as I stated before, I'm pretty satisfied with the results I've gotten from my "crappy workflow", so I don't imagine the S9800 and now being able to output using S-Video making things worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
When it comes to video capture, lockups/quits could mean two things:
(1) halt due to anti-copy
(2) capture driver problems

Unsure which you mean.
I only mentioned that because jwillis had mentioned that people who try to capture directly to a lossy format will typically experience "lockups" and "quits". I was going to quote his exact words but for some reason it appears he's now edited the huge post that he made in Post#4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You cannot capture MPEG-2 with the VC500 card. It does not support it. Some low-end capture software will encode on-the-fly to limited spec MPEG, but quality will be quite terrible.
So you're telling me that my crappy Hauppauge 950Q can capture directly to MPEG-2 but the VC500 can't? That's definitely disappointing. I still don't have a problem with capturing loseless and then encoding to lossy, I was just trying to save time by going directly to lossy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Again, that's a DV workflow. You will lose 50% of your color (4:1:1), and VHS color is pretty lousy to begin with. Lack of external TBC may still be an issue.
Yeah, I've seen this mentioned in other threads and am very aware. It's obviously not my first choice which is why I'm still considering it. But I need to see actual real world results before I can make a decision to go that route or not, and I can't do that till my hardware arrives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Nice. I don't need fancy graphics cards, but the rest of your specs are close to my own, for my primary editing system.
Thanks! Yeah the "fancy graphics card" isn't a big necessity for me either, it's just there more for completeness I suppose.
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  #8  
08-01-2019, 04:33 AM
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The 960Q is a low-end card, and WinTV is not good for the USB cards. Quality is pretty lousy. Worse than even a cheap DVD recorder.

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