HD files converted to MPEG2 progressive for SD DVD?

Davis · #1 08-19-2023, 01:52 PM

Not sure what the standard procedure is on this. Have some files that are 720P and want to put them on DVD. When I down convert them to 720x480 should I leave them progressive. I know back when some people had CRT TV's and LCD sets, interlace would probably been best. Now that almost 100% is LCD, maybe keeping them progressive would be better.

Also, after authoring the DVD which I have done with them as interlaced, when playing the DVD the file is letterboxed, which has to be set in the DVD menu, with black on the top and the sides. It's an older DVD player and I have to set it to letterbox manually. I have kept the files as 16x9 and they are 720x480 so I think that is normal to have the black on all 4 sides on a widescreen TV. Of course on a 4:3 TV there would only be black on the sides. Now if the DVD player upscales the video would fill the screen, which I have one I have tested on and it looks good even being interlaced.

Thanks for any input.

Marty

latreche34 · #2 08-19-2023, 10:27 PM

Why would you wanna do that? DVD and SD are dead standards to convert to them from a format that is already superior to them.

Davis · #3 08-19-2023, 10:45 PM

I guess the best reason to do that is because the person I'm doing it for wants it on a DVD. I don't consider DVD format to be totally dead, although that format is probably not in use as much as it was. The big thing seems to be streaming, but DVD is still good for a lot of things. I would put it on Blu-ray but they don't won't to buy a new player.

Marty

latreche34 · #4 08-20-2023, 01:49 AM

Then you should ask them if their DVD player accepts progressive scan or not, By the looks of since they don't even have a Blu-ray player they must have a very old DVD player.

Hushpower · #5 08-20-2023, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davis

I have kept the files as 16x9 and they are 720x480 so I think that is normal to have the black on all 4 sides on a widescreen TV.

You won't/shouldn't have black bars on all 4 sides. If it's a 16:9 video, you'll have none on a widescreen TV. If it's on a 4:3 TV, you'll have letterboxing (black on top and bottom) but thee video should fill the screen laterally.

If it's a 4:3 video, you'll have pillarboxing ie black side bars as the video will (should!) fill vertically.

If you're getting black bars on all 4 sides, then either the original file or your re-encode has added solid black video at the top/bottom and/or sides. You can easily tell: open one of your VOBs (or the original file) in VLC Player and drag the sides in until the video starts to shrink vertically. If it shrinks before the sides get to the actual image, you'll see which of the 4 sides has embedded black bars.

To make DVDs, you shouldn't use any burnt-in black bars IMO.

You say the original is 720P. What's the other dimension eg 960x720 or 720x480 and what is the display aspect ratio eg 4:3 or 16:9?

lordsmurf · #6 08-20-2023, 05:13 AM

What are the frame rates here?

Davis · #7 08-20-2023, 03:28 PM

The original file is 1280x720p at 59.94 frame rate. Since the DVD spec allows progressive, I should probably keep it that way and render to 720x480p 16x9. Doesn't mean it will play on all players, especially if they are older players. For players that will play it, I think the image will be better. For Blu-ray players that upscale it should work fine as well as putting it on Blu-ray.

As for having black on all 4 sides with a 720x480 16x9 file, I see no way to avoid it without scaling taking place. With a 4:3 720x480 file I know there is black on the sides on a widescreen. If the file is 720x480 16x9 I see no way not to have black on the sides and top and bottom. When I look at over the air signals with an HD converter box that converts to 720x480 16x9 that's the way it looks on a widescreen. That should be the same as taking HD and down converting to 720x480 16x9 and putting it on a DVD. If not, I would like to know the secret without scaling.

Hope all this makes sense and thanks!

Marty

latreche34 · #8 08-20-2023, 04:22 PM

You can avoid black bars as long as the original aspect ratio is 16/9 and the target display aspect ratio is 16/9, Post a short sample so the members can show you how to achieve it.

Hushpower · #9 08-20-2023, 08:23 PM

Quote:

If the file is 720x480 16x9 I see no way not to have black on the sides and top and bottom. When I look at over the air signals with an HD converter box that converts to 720x480 16x9 that's the way it looks on a widescreen.

Nope, a 16:9 file will not have black bars at any resolution, provided it's being looked-at on a 16:9 screen, and provided the file is encoded with the 16:9 display aspect ratio flag (because 720x480, in itself, isn't 16:9). It sounds like your converter isn't doing the right thing.

We need to see a sample, even on Youtube would do, or use AVIMedmux to create a short 10 second sample and attach it here.

Davis · #10 08-22-2023, 12:14 AM

Thanks for the replies. Maybe there is something I'm not checking when I convert the file to MPEG2. I'm using TMPG Mastering Works 7 to do the down-converting. I like the software and I have been happy with the results so far. The original file is AVI 1280x720p. I think I will leave it progressive since most players should play MPEG2 progressive. Maybe that will speed up the conversion time too. Give me a few days to get back to it and if I can't get it working right, I'll try and post a short clip of my down conversion.

Marty

Davis · #11 08-30-2023, 10:09 PM

I just wanted to post an update with a screenshot from a widescreen tv. Since it's 720x480 letterboxed, it would have to have black at the top and bottom. and since it's the same width as an SD 4:3 image, that gives me the bars on the sides. Now, I understand I could resize the image to 1440x1080, but then that would not be in the DVD specs. I think I have decided to just author it this way for SD and also provide an HD version on Blu-ray. Then it can be played regardless of what player they have.

Well, for some reason it won't let me upload the screenshot.

Hushpower · #12 08-30-2023, 10:23 PM

Quote:

for some reason it won't let me upload the screenshot.

The system is a little clumsy.

Click on Manage Attachments
Choose your image (note the file size limitations at the bottom, JPEG max width 890 pixels)
Click Upload
When it's uploaded, you'll see it below your post in the Attach Files area.
Close the Manage Attachments window
Click "Post Quick Reply".

Davis · #13 08-30-2023, 10:52 PM

Size of image meets specs and I have tried jpg and PNG and neither works. Acts like it's uploading and then I get a message like the site is down or been moved. I'll try again tomorrow and see what happens.

Thanks

lordsmurf · #14 08-31-2023, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

(note the file size limitations at the bottom, JPEG max width 890 pixels)

What matters is file size. The pixel size is adjusted by the server, downsized to 890 on upload.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davis

Size of image meets specs and I have tried jpg and PNG and neither works. Acts like it's uploading and then I get a message like the site is down or been moved.

Investigating, testing image upload. .... EDIT: Worked!

Now to look at a few other things...

detectivesmurf.png

Davis · #15 08-31-2023, 09:04 AM

Here is the image I was trying to upload of what I see after converting and authoring. The upload worked this morning. Yay!

Hushpower · #16 08-31-2023, 09:48 AM

Woo-eee. Something's definitely cock-eyed there. If that TV screen display is correct, the video itself is around 1.65:1. Normal SD is 4:3 or 1.333 to 1, and normal widescreen/HD is 16:9 or 1.78:1. But yours looks proportioned correctly, so you need to crop/chop off all of the top and most of the sides so it fits correctly in a 16:9 frame. I've attached a pic of my video editor with the 16:9 frame overlaid to show what I mean.

I don't know how you'd do that in Mastering Works.

You can see which black bars are burned in by opening this is VLC Player and progressively reducing the width. When the top of the video starts shrinking too, that's the full frame, and you'll see where the black bars are.

Davis · #17 08-31-2023, 10:01 AM

The strange thing is when I look at any over-the-air HD signal with a converter box that people use to have to view HD on an analog set I see the same size image on my widescreen if it's being broadcast as 16:9. If it's a 4:3 broadcast image then I only have black on the sides. When I play my down converted file in VLC media player there is no black around it at all. Maybe there is something going on with the TMPG Authoring Works 6 software.