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04-17-2016, 11:02 AM
Pierrebubu Pierrebubu is offline
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Hello Lordsmurf,

Remember me trying to capture NTSC Laserdiscs with highest quality (Tevion vs. EZ-Cap)? Well I have now good raw interlaced AVI (200 GB) which I'll keep for archiving. I do now want to make a working copy, I don't care the format, but want to keep interlace (I prefer to rely on playback gears, as I have choices), and aim at 30 GB. Could you outline a roadmap on how to proceed, as I have no idea on how to start: the more hours I Google, the more I am confused. Thanks in advance.

Looking at other threads; my aim is not to create DVD, but a computer-readable file.
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  #2  
04-17-2016, 05:45 PM
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I still don't see why anybody converts to YUY2 uncompressed (raw) when lossless is essentially the same at less than half the file size. YUY2 uncompressed is 75gb/hour, while Huffyuv is about 35gb/hour. But anyway...

My favorite archive format is 15mbps MPEG-2 (4:2:0 MP@ML). It's both a broadcast spec and a Blu-ray spec for SD 720x480/576 video. It's often almost lossless in quality, even smaller, and great for computer viewing. Use VLC with an active playback deinterlacer filter.

All you really need is a good MPEG-2 encoder. The commercial MainConcept Reference/TotalCode is best, but Avidemux 2.5 is a nice freeware alternative.

Is that what you're after?

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  #3  
04-22-2016, 02:15 AM
Pierrebubu Pierrebubu is offline
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hello lordsmurff

I didn't quite expressed myself: the video isn't raw but lossless compressed

LAGS 720 x 480 29.97 fps, 64467 kbps, V: lagarith, yuv'; interlaced

Here is a clip edited with Virtualdub: http://www.buckens.com/sample.01.00.avi

These were the settings you suggested to me in an earlier exchange for archival purpose.

208 GB, 423 minutes, in 8 files.

For working media, I like to compress to 1 GB/hr, kept interlaced.

I am novice at this and need simple instructs like; what codec to download, how to integrate in VD (or other program), how to proceed to the compression, making sure that the output is interlaced.
Another dumb question: I looked at some codec, and I see the setting qs "image quality", but no way to see what the compression factor will be!
  #4  
04-22-2016, 10:56 PM
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Ah, okay, Laragith is fine. (I prefer Huffyuv.)

1gb/hour is not ideal. What format are you compressing to? Or are you asking for format that spec?

I'd need to know that exact codec, or where you're seeing quality settings.

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  #5  
04-23-2016, 02:59 AM
Pierrebubu Pierrebubu is offline
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Hello,
I think you don't understand my request. I need to compress and have no idea what program:codec to use, and ask your suggestion.

Present data, archive 720 x 480 29.97 fps lagarith yuv4 interlace.
This archive is 29.5 GB/hr and there is 7 hrs of it.

I would like to compress for working files of more practical size (f. ex. 1GB/hr). File type is unimportant as long as MPC-HC or VLC can read it. Important: I want the compressed file to be interlaced. I am not intending to create a working DVD.

So what I need from you:
- what Codec
- what program an how to integrate the Coded
- program setting to make sure output is interlaced; and the approximate target compression is achieved

Thanks.

-- merged --

Main concept/Total code requires 64bit machines, which I don't have.
I loaded a 32-bit version of Avidemux; choose Mpeg2 (ff) - interlaced - no filter, choose my target file size; and the resulting file, when looked at properties with MPC-HC, it shows NTSC, but scan: progessive, and sure enough when looking at a frozen image, I can see the comb effect, showing that I am not looking at a field but a frame combining two fields.
(Here is an interesting article dealing specificamly with SD and HD video in the perspective of NTSC (and PAL).(https://larryjordan.com/articles/tec...st-videocodec/)
She mentions DV/DVCPRO-NTSC and also Offline RT, Motion JPEG A, Motion JPEG B, Photo-JPEG, JPEG 2000.)

-- merged --

Hello,

This will be my last post. Since using this forum, I spent more time doing my own research and given more answers to the "expert" that I have been given answers (most of them erroneous). All codecs with Avidemux gave crappy results. Finally Shanaencoder with their H264 codec gave superb results (I checked all results, field by field with limovie.exe). Furthermore, Shana encoding speed is lightspeed faster than Handbrake, et all. I wished that the staff here (I) answered the questions: (its obvious that they don't read them), (II) they knew a little about what they are supposed to be expert about. I wonder if they spend their time smoking joints and emptying Bourbon bottles! My premium membership has not only be a waist of money, but a tremendous waist of time.
  #6  
04-23-2016, 09:10 PM
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Older versions of MainConcept don't require 64-bit. Both versions 1.5 and 2.0 work very nicely, and you can often find them used second-hand, if you want the superior payware.

Part of the issue is you're asking questions, but you're still in learning mode, so some of your questions don't yet make sense. Unlike other sites that razz and troll users, we're all quite understanding of this, and will work with you. That's the difference between sites with professionals and serious hobbyists, and one that are not.

If you want small interlaced files, 1gb/hour MPEG-2 at DVD specs (ML@ML) will work. 4-hour DVDs often look fine, assuming no highly-detailed or fast-action scenes (example: wrestling, car races, sports). Much of this depends heavily on the tweaking of sub-settings in software. MainConcept and Avisynth, for example, give access to such advanced settings.

H.264 is an option, but interlaced H.264 has very poor support, so you'll run into issues with playback. You'd need to deinterlace first, to be safe. That, of course, also throws out some quality, though it can be minimized with QTGMC methods (Avisynth, Windows).

The Shana encoder is really no better/worse than Avidemux. That's just the nature of freeware video software. Video is complex, meaning that it has some pretty heavy math involved, which translates to software instability. Even pro applications, such as Adobe Premiere, run into this more often than you'd desire -- just not as often as freeware.

If you're getting crappy results with Avidemux, then you're doing something wrong. Simply learn what that is, instead of assuming it's the software. It's not.

- MJPEG is old and inferior
- JPEG 2000 is not well supported (and was honestly still-born),
- DVCPro is special needs
- OfflineRT is for "offline" video editing in an NLE, and is comparable to ProRes422

You're throwing around accusations, but at the same time you're semi-coherent and simply name-dropping things you've read. For example, I've actually used all those formats, and am not just reading random articles found via Google. Reading about video, and understanding video, are two vastly different things. Also note the word "random", as in randomly reading something from a guy that specialized in film editing (using FCP/Mac workflows) isn't going to apply to somebody encoding from consumer analog sources. Newbies make that mistake far too often, and it has resulted in arguments for years (mostly on VH and Doom9).

We're perfectly willing to educate you on video, but the impatience and rudeness must end.

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  #7  
04-24-2016, 06:41 AM
Pierrebubu Pierrebubu is offline
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Sorry,

Don't call me a rooky, I am a seasoned engineer that designed NMR scanners, X-Ray fluorescence analyzers, among others. Your comments about Tevion/EZCap etc... are qualitative/emotional, not quantitative. I am the only one in 10 years of your forum that reported actual measurements on both devices. I bought the Tevion on pure faith of your "experience": waist-less effort, please buy it back to me: http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/27216687...84.m1555.l2649.

If you look carefully at the exchanges: I asked simple questions, and you never address them with responses; you only just go on tangents; even if I number the questions to try to bring some order in the discussion.
Never did you address the issue of an interlaced output of a CODEC.
Did you even knew about tools like http://astro-limovie.info/limovie/limovie_en.html.

Your comments about EZCap being "Crap" (without substantiation, nor measurements), was...well crap! With "all your years of experience", you have next to nothing to show in term of real data; while I amassed a body of experience and data in a few months that probably you'll never do during the rest of your life. I am a hard, conscientious engineer, and I go by results, not by hyperbolas, dogma, credo and emotional attachments to products.
You say that I am semi-coherent and site Google article; sorry the later wasn't part of my experiments, I though doing you a favor by sharing it with you, not part of the effort here; on the contrary I am very coherent, I tried all the CODECS with every options, not name dropping, all results analysed field by field with limovie.exe...this is not something I think you do. Hours of data gathering. As far as I am concerned, I could considered myself as an expert, and you still a newbie, at least in the limited scope of capturing/converting/compressing NTSC/PAL signals. There is nothing wrong being a newbie, if you'r good; after 6 months of being exposed to Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, I started designing state-of-the-art scanner that might save your life: don't argue at the clinic that you want to be scanned by a machine designed by an "oldie" at the time the technique didn't existed. You definitely can't educate me on those matters; you have given me false info (capturing hardware), and elusive, non instructive random thoughts on software.
If you were intelligent/open, you would thank me for giving free/verified input, and keep our info/interest going. But I guess its useless, if you learned so little in decade(s), compared to me in a few months, I guess there is no hope, unless you change your mental attitude. This is the end of our exchange; please don't bother to respond.(besides if you want to buy my Tevion).
  #8  
04-24-2016, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierrebubu View Post
Don't call me a rooky, I am a seasoned engineer that designed NMR scanners, X-Ray fluorescence analyzers, among others.
I'm also skilled at making cupcakes and sandwiches --- but it doesn't matter. This is video, not cooking. And analog consumer video at that, which is a smaller subsection of the topic.

Quote:
Your comments about Tevion/EZCap etc
I'm amused how you don't like the Tevion, yet your eBay auction to resell it claims it's a great tool, and lists other glowing reviews.

Quote:
If you look carefully at the exchanges: I asked simple questions, and you never address them with responses; you only just go on tangents;
This is what happens when your video questions don't make sense. The question can't be answered without first giving info to help clarify the situation so you understand it better.

This has always been my favorite example:
Guy: Doctor, doctor, my penis hurts! How do I cut it off to make the pain go away?!
Doctor: !!!


Do you not see the ridiculousness of his request? The doctor cannot and will not answer that question. The root cause is something else, the question he should be asking is something else.

Quote:
Never did you address the issue of an interlaced output of a CODEC.
You asked random questions, gave random info:
- raw interlaced AVI (200 GB)
- which I'll keep for archiving
- a working copy
- want to keep interlace
- aim at 30 GB
- I have no idea on how to start
- not to create DVD, but a computer-readable file.

A quizzical post from me, trying to address the random info, resulted in this addition:
- I like to compress to 1 GB/hr, kept interlaced.

I still have questions. A lot of your statements still conflict.

- Where does 30gb come from? Per hour, total file size, something else?
- What do you mean "working copy". That generally means a large intermediary like Huffyuv or ProRes422.
- Interlaced may not be a choice.
- All digital video formats are "computer-readable" files. They're stored as files! (ie, you can use MPEG files without authoring to disc)

H.264 doesn't play nice with interlace, making MPEG-2 the best choice. But as most newbies, I think you made the knee-jerk reaction that "MPEG is for DVD" when that's not true. DVD uses MPEG, but MPEG is not "for DVD". We never discussed this before you flew off the handle in another semi-coherent rage.

Remember that, right away, I told you that 15mbps MPEG-2 was my suggestion. In my first reply, I gave a blind suggestion to an obtuse question.

Quote:
Did you even knew about tools like http://astro-limovie.info/limovie/limovie_en.html.
Yes, and I dismiss it as overly technical nonsense for non-scientific use. Many tools like this have come and gone over the years. We view videos with our eyes, and a trained eye can easily see video errors. I don't need a program to analyze it for me. A quick scrub of a timeline will reveal just as much, if not more. Those programs have limited use, and you'll never see studios relying on them.

Looking deeper, it was created for astronomy uses, not converting Laserdiscs. Again, random Google finds.

And FYI, I worked for studios in years past, before my medical issues forced me to quit.

Quote:
Your comments about EZCap being "Crap" (without substantiation, nor measurements), was...well crap! With "all your years of experience", you have next to nothing to show in term of real data;
That thread is here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/prem...archiving.html

You posted on 1/25, a day that the site was having maintenance on a server that directly affects performance of the forum. We were never notified of your posts. While we manually audit, posts can be missed. When you posted a followup some days later, it was pissy, and you seemed to want to be rude more than understand what you observed. So I never bother to reply. However, if you had searched the forum, you'd have found other posts, from other members, with samples clips/images, that showed the main issues on the EZcap device: color/chroma smearing, contrast loss, occasional blowout of highlights.

Chipset doesn't matter as much as you think it does. For example, the highly regarded LSI Logic chipset used in some DVD recorders was also used by Panasonic for a short time. But those Panasonic machines were still terrible, as all Panasonic machines were before it (and since), because the chipset was used poorly.

Quote:
while I amassed a body of experience and data in a few months that probably you'll never do during the rest of your life.
My response =

Quote:
I am a hard, conscientious engineer, and I go by results
Yes, that's great, but patience is required as well. Posting 3 times in a day, with the 3rd being an angry rageful post, is not a display of patience.

Quote:
I tried all the CODECS with every options
Did you try On2 VP6? No, of course not. "all of them" is hyperbole on your part. It doesn't help the situation any. If you wanted to actually understand video, then you'd list out the ones that were tried, with questions about your observations. That's how scientists learn.

Quote:
As far as I am concerned, I could considered myself as an expert
Ah yes, the modern experts. A few days with Google, and now you know it all.

Quote:
and you still a newbie, at least in the limited scope of capturing/converting/compressing NTSC/PAL signals.
Again, my response =

Quote:
after 6 months of being exposed to Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, I started designing state-of-the-art scanner that might save your life:
Hey, that's great!

... but I'll be sure to give you respect, acknowledge your expertise, and just generally refrain from being an ass. Some of us know how to extend professional courtesies.

Quote:
This is the end
Great.

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