Quantcast Cannot make an interlaced file in Avisynth 2.5x? - digitalFAQ Forum
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08-04-2018, 06:35 AM
BarryTheCrab BarryTheCrab is online now
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Hello members,
I have been having an issue with interlacing in Avisynth.
MY OS is W10x64, I capture using JVC-S7800U>TBC-1000>Diamond VC-500, and use Vitualdub and HuffYUV. Sometimes I toss an ES-15 in there.
I get files that I am TOLD it's progressive in MediaInfo.
My testing is done with a copy of Goodfellas, difficult to find a scene that doesn't make me wince.
My conversions are intended for DVD but they always look jagged or aliased in movement.
No problem making a streaming progressive file, they look great, but I cannot make a DVD that doesn't suffer from those jags unless I capture in MPEG2 (with high bitrate) using other software.
I have scoured this forum and others to no avail. I was hoping, really hoping that Avisynth is my big gun, but I must be missing something. I just want a decent mpg file that I can then go to disc, and I can use my progressive streamers as extra content.
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  #2  
08-04-2018, 06:56 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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AVI doesn't know fields. Huffyuv doesn't know fields. Just data. So MediaInfo is useless for that tidbit of info.

Aliased conversions does mean deinterlace somewhere. But is it a player, or did you view the captured files in VirtualDub? Because interlaced should be pretty obvious.

I have seen times where fancy graphics cards are actually pretty stupid, and will deinterlace anytime it thinks it see interlace in DirectX overlay. So if VirtualDub shows deinterlace, either find the card settings, or just disable VirtualDub DirectX usage. Again, not common, but happens.

No issue with streaming ... and I really am lost on how you're seeing problem. Or if you're not seeing problems on stremaing copy.

You need to list out software in use. And we may ask for settings after knowing it.

Realize most software defaults are for stupid people, the ones that cry about "lines" in the video, and think Youtube is the bar for quality. I've fought that mentality since the 90s, since all we had was RealMedia. Sometimes in vain, sometimes to success. Interlace should not be hated or feared, just understood.

Avisynth (especially the x64) is a big gun for deinterlace. The x64 with "fast" preset for QTGMC is about realtime on my i7-6700K!

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08-04-2018, 09:35 AM
BarryTheCrab BarryTheCrab is online now
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When I get home later I will capture a non-commercial tape segment to test, rather than Goodfellas, maybe a frame rate is partly to blame, but I will add this tidbit; I find I have to add the extension to my soon-to-be-produced file name in Avisynth 2.5x or it won't make a video file, just a file. I can add the extension AFTER, also. Strange.
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08-04-2018, 10:06 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryTheCrab View Post
My testing is done with a copy of Goodfellas
Goodfellas is a Hollywood film. Videos that originate as film sources aren't interlaced. They're telecined. Normal pulldown for NTSC telecine consists of groups of 5 frames, 3 of which are progressive and 2 of which appear as interlaced, with some duplicate fields in one of the two interlaced frames. You should not deinterlace telecined sources. Use IVTC (inverse telecine) to eliminate duplicate fields properly, generate a progressive video, and restore the video to its original frame rate of 23.976 fps.
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/TIVTC

You're shooting yourself in the foot using 64-bit Avisynth. Only a small number of Avisynth plugins are available in 64-bit.

You might also have a hybrid structure in your Goodfellas source which would defy normal inverse telecine or deinterlacing. No one can tell without a short sample of the unfiltered video.

And even if it is interlaced, why are you deinterlacing? There is good quality deinteralcing with QTGMC, but you will never avoid losing some degree of original quality with any deinterlace operation. If your PC media players or tv or external player can't deinterlace, then they can't handle telcine either. Use something better for playback.

https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/52669/telecine
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08-04-2018, 10:14 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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@sanlyn:

You can have both Avisynth 2.6 x64+ and Avisynth 2.6 x86 (+ or not) installed side by side. I use x64 when it works, x86 when it's needed or best. x64 has 64-bit only filters that are not available in 32-bit. That's the main reason my guide was stopped, as it got really complicated really fast, and I needed time to sort some things out. Now all I need is time to resume writing it.

But yes, telecined.
And then deinterlace only when needed. And it's not needed as often as some think.

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  #6  
08-04-2018, 05:23 PM
BarryTheCrab BarryTheCrab is online now
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Oh for cripes sake, I swear I'm never gonna post again here without having my coffee. I mean friggin' AVIDEMUX! Damn it.
And yes, my testing done with commercial tapes was ignorance and I didn't find (until yesterday) a post somewhere here stating it was probably progressive anyway. So duh. I knew from reading that Mediainfo chokes on the nature of Huffyuv and can't tell if it's interlaced or progressive so I was ignoring that, but they also show up listed as progressive in Powerdirector (I don't want to hear it), only MagicYUV appears as interlaced in PD and Mediainfo doesn't really indicate a format for Magic other than NTSC. Of course Magic doesn't work in AVIDEMUX so the point is moot.
But much of this is a side track, not helped one iota by my mental burp of Avidemux-Avisynth.
But FINALLY I must have missed the proper encoder (mpeg2enc) because to my delight I used a Huffyuv file, processed it in AVIDEMUX and ended up with an mpeg2 that looks great and is interlaced. I even used plugins.
This has been a bit of a quest, I really think's less complicated to lay out and build a subdivision.
I apologize for the titling error, and if you have any questions for me, or wish to burn both my eyes out, I'm up for it.
Thank you all,
Barry.
Now I'll put on my helmet and wait for Sanlyn to give me my comeuppance.

Last edited by BarryTheCrab; 08-04-2018 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Inaccurate title
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08-04-2018, 09:16 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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No comeuppance needed, you just don't [yet] grasp that most film-based movies are telecined, not interlaced. You can't always trust apps like MediaInfo, they just do the best they can with the info given. You have to learn on your own how to analyze a frame structure -- something you'll never learn by using push-button apps like Avidemux. Try a simple tool like VirtualDub that lets you break down a video frame by frame and field by field.

This old classic HTML guide was just posted as a .zip file not more than 2 weeks ago: Neuron2: How To Analyze Video Frame Structure

Last edited by lordsmurf; 08-05-2018 at 12:37 AM. Reason: [be nice] -LS
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  #8  
08-05-2018, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Powerdirector (I don't want to hear it)


Quote:
But FINALLY I must have missed the proper encoder (mpeg2enc) because to my delight I used a Huffyuv file, processed it in AVIDEMUX and ended up with an mpeg2 that looks great and is interlaced. I even used plugins.
The neat thing about telecined footage is that it's progressive that is weaved and treated like interlaced. So you can processed as interlaced as long as the image is weaved. You can always IVTC later, and you've not embedded it into interlace. This is a rare property in video, not embedding by the act of copying/transferring/encoding.

I usually treat telecine as interlace -- and sometimes even just deinterlace because it's faster (and not always less accurate). But I'll IVTC anything important, and always have.

I missed that Neuron guide, thanks sanlyn.

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