Quantcast Best file format for video clips? - Page 3 - digitalFAQ Forum
  #41  
11-22-2018, 02:18 AM
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DVD-Video doesn't really have a minimum MPEG bitrate, and the encoder does what ever is needed to maintain quality. When you specify 2mbpg, you're mostly just padding the stream during fade in/out (ie commercials breaks), where bitrate can dip lower. When you constrain VBR, it's actually CVBR at that point.

But the flip side is that some encoders choke on too-low bitrates, and 2mbps is therefore sometimes the minimum solely for that reason. sanlyn has been around for a while, and that 2mbps minimum was somewhat ingrained in us due to earlier encoders. But I'd actually try to allow it to go as low as it want, which theoretically probably is not less than 0.5mbps/ So that's be my starting point.

Some older MPEG chips in players had issues with both max specs, and the non-existent "minimum", but I've not seen those in years. At this late date, I'd think most of those ancient DVD players were scrapped for recycle, or (sadly) lining landfills.

Your 7 avg / 9 max looks good.

@sanlyn, thanks much for helping in this thread.

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The following users thank lordsmurf for this useful post: sanlyn (11-22-2018), Superstar (11-22-2018)
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  #42  
11-22-2018, 06:03 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
Quick question about the bitrate settings.

You said 7000 in the bitrate box. 9000 in maximum then 2000 in minimum.

Just to confirm, I would only put 7 in the bitrate. 9 in max and 2 in minimum, correct?

It doesn't seem to be letting me put actually 7000, 9000, 2000. When I try, it's automatically changing it to different numbers, so I was thinking, instead of 7000, I'd just put 7, etc

Is that correct?
Yes, sorry, the GUI is different for version 5 and version 6.
In version 5, 7000 can be entered. In version 6, the "mbps" multiplies by 1000, so you would just enter "7".
In version 5 you could enter something like 7500. In version 6 it would be "7.5".

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
DVD-Video doesn't really have a minimum MPEG bitrate, and the encoder does what ever is needed to maintain quality. When you specify 2mbpg, you're mostly just padding the stream during fade in/out (ie commercials breaks), where bitrate can dip lower. When you constrain VBR, it's actually CVBR at that point.

But the flip side is that some encoders choke on too-low bitrates, and 2mbps is therefore sometimes the minimum solely for that reason. sanlyn has been around for a while, and that 2mbps minimum was somewhat ingrained in us due to earlier encoders. But I'd actually try to allow it to go as low as it want, which theoretically probably is not less than 0.5mbps/ So that's be my starting point.

Some older MPEG chips in players had issues with both max specs, and the non-existent "minimum", but I've not seen those in years. At this late date, I'd think most of those ancient DVD players were scrapped for recycle, or (sadly) lining landfills.
My sister's Toshiba DVD player dates from 2000 and my old (expensive for its day) Toshiba SD4800 is from 2001, still sits next to my even pricier 2003 Cambridge. They still work, and they put out a better picture than a lot of players that came down the line since then. When I was making house calls for PC's I saw a lot of ancient players still in use (but, sadly, no high end VCRs). Goes to prove the saying, "They don't make 'em like that any more". You're lucky if you can get a stingy 90 days out of a new player.

Last edited by sanlyn; 11-22-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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  #43  
11-22-2018, 10:13 AM
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Another bitrate question. I've gone through the steps to remove the bars and I'm importing the clips to make a DVD and a lot of these clips are very small, so could I use even a higher number for the bitrates or just stick with what you guys suggested?

Reason I ask is, in the DVD Im making now, i imported 12 clips, each clip has the suggested bitrates that you guys told me, and even with 12 clips in there, there's over half of the DVD left of empty space

I of course have no problem with just using the same bitrate numbers and just add more clips to this DVD, but I thought since they're small, maybe I could use higher numbers and get even better quality. But, I figured it was definitely worth asking about
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  #44  
11-22-2018, 09:31 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Bitrate determines the quality of your encode. It has nothing to do with the size of the clip.

The bitrate suggested is (very) slightly higher than mainstream for quality DVD because:
(a) You're working with previous lossy encodes. Re-encoding lowers quality. Use more bits to maintain quality.
(b) Action video requires higher bitrates.

When you set up your encoding parameters (bitrates, audio configuration, aspect ratio, frame size) it applies to all the clips that you are joining in your video. The crop and resize filters have to be set for each imported clip.

Import all of your clips, then encode all of them together into one video at one time. Do not re-import or re-encode. Every encode loses data and lowers quality. The lost data and the quality of the previous encode cannot be recovered. That's what "lossy" means.
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  #45  
11-23-2018, 11:41 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The query below was submitted via PM. We request that if you want more project questions, revisions, tech details, etc., please post in the forum so others can share information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar
I've made a DVD with the bars cropped. I have one made with and without. I thought that I'd prefer the bars gone, obviously. However, after seeing both now on a finished DVD, I'm not as sure.

The bars obviously give better/crisper quality and without them, the picture seems a tad stretched and not as crisp, which I expected somewhat.

If you were doing this, which way would you prefer?
Without the bars the image shouldn't be stretched at all, the image still displays as 4:3 whether it's the original with bars or without. Part of the difference is due to different degrees of resizing. And re-encoding lossy originals always has a cost.

If you leave the original side pillars as-is you resize the entire original 16x9 image to 720x480 and encode at 16:9, not 4:3.

The DVD-encoded version with original side bars intact using TMPGenc VMW is attached. I see very little difference between the two versions. Keep in mind, however, that the 4:3 version will play full screen on a 4:3 display. On a 4:3 display the 16x9 version with its original side pillars will play as letterbox with additional bars added on top and bottom.

16x9 encode with original side bars on a 16x9 display:


16x9 encode with original side bars on a 4:3 display:


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 16x9 encode on 16x9 display.jpg (49.0 KB, 44 downloads)
File Type: jpg 16x9 encode on 4x3 display.jpg (30.0 KB, 43 downloads)
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  #46  
11-23-2018, 08:21 PM
Superstar Superstar is offline
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What I meant was, with the bars completely removed, by following the tutorial you posted. It worked perfectly on a bunch of clips so I was able to import about 24 onto a DVD to make it and it still looks good as I wanted it to, but the picture looks..I don't know if stretched is the right word...maybe doesn't look stretched but bigger, but I guess that's to be expected

I guess better way to describe it is, it looks a little more standard def, where I was hoping it'd come out looking more high-def, as it does with the pillars on each side, if that makes sense

Last edited by Superstar; 11-23-2018 at 09:11 PM.
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  #47  
11-24-2018, 08:31 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The cropped 4:3 version will look slightly wider when played at fullscreen 16x9 because the original core image isn't exactly 4:3. Proportionately, the uncropped image in its original square-pixel 16x9 frame with borders is not stretched at all for fullscreen 16x9 playback. You'll always have slight geometry differences when you change the proportions of different sources.

Neither of those images looks like "hi-def" because of (a) the low-bitrate encoding of the original, (2) lossy re-encodes always take a quality hit, and (3) DVD is not a high definition format, and (4) the original mp4's didn't look as if they came from high definition sources.

Last edited by sanlyn; 11-24-2018 at 08:49 AM.
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  #48  
11-24-2018, 01:39 PM
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Ah ok, that makes sense. thanks. In the DVD making program, when you select to make a menu it asks you if you want 16x9 or 4x3. Which should I pick? I was thinking 4x3?

The first DVD I made, I picked 16x9 and the background pic that I used for the background didn't fill the whole screen, so there's black bars around it..how ironic. And the font looks like a little blurred. So, figured I'd check on that
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  #49  
11-26-2018, 10:20 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Make 16x9 menus for 16x9 video, 4x3 menus for 4x3 video.
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  #50  
11-29-2018, 12:12 AM
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I split this project up into certain years. and I'm now on the final year of it.

However, before I started removing the black bars, I had previously downloaded 44 clips that I wanted to use for this project. I already encoded them all, with the black bars still on them. I did that before you posted the tutorial, and taught me how to remove the bars.

So, my question is, can I import each clip back into Video Master, remove the black bars and be done with it? (I think I'd have to encode them again after doing that. I'm not sure if I can just save it without re-encoding?)

Or would you suggest I delete all 44 clips and start totally over, by re-downloading each show again, trim it down to get each clip again and then remove the bars and do the encoding process as I've been doing per your tutorial?

Last edited by Superstar; 11-29-2018 at 12:33 AM.
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  #51  
11-29-2018, 04:46 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I's up to you. If you remove the pillars you'll have to re-encode, and re-encoding means another quality hit. You can try doing one clip and see what you get but you'll start to notice more background noise, and motion will have more noise and less clarity.
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  #52  
05-12-2019, 02:19 PM
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I want to put some full length shows on DVD. Would I use the same settings as described in page 2 of this thread for that, or should I use different ones?

The last project I did was short, single clips, but this one is a show that's about 26-33 mins on average, per episode.

Thanks

-- merged --

Also, with the shows being somewhat short, minutes wise, would you suggest putting one show or two on each DVD?

If 1 show, what would be the bitrates, etc
If 2 shows...what would be the bitrates, etc. Thanks

-- merged --

Just bumping because still need help with it.
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  #53  
05-12-2019, 04:33 PM
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Length x bitrate = file size.
Quality = bitrate.

DVD-Video has max video bitrate of about 9500mbps, allowing audio 256kbps.
DVD has max space of about 4.37gb.
Anything under 1 hour should fit fine on a DVD at max bitrate.

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  #54  
05-15-2019, 09:12 PM
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For 20 shows, which is what I'm putting onto DVD, would you say it's best to put 1 show on each one, or two? Each show is 26-33 mins
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  #55  
05-16-2019, 12:20 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
For 20 shows, which is what I'm putting onto DVD, would you say it's best to put 1 show on each one, or two? Each show is 26-33 mins
Remember:
Higher bitrate = higher quality + larger file size.
Lower bitrate = lower quality + smaller file size.

Retail DVD is usually double-layer or double-sided, which is how labs get more video on one disc at decent bitrates. If you want a decent bitrate (6200 or higher) and more video on one disc use Verbatim AZO double-layer DVD+R.

A normal bitrate for 1 hour of highest-quality DVD would be two-pass VBR, 7500 target, 9000 max. On a single-layer disc that would mean 1 episode as you describe it. Using a higher target bitrate in two-pass VBR won't visibly improve the results. Using fixed bitrates instead of VBR will waste bitrate on scenes that don't need it.

An average bitrate for 90-minutes of high-quality DVD would be two-pass VBR, 6200 target, 9000 max, which is just about what you'd find on a retail double-layer DVD with one movie and some "features". On a single-layer disc, that would give you 3 short episodes as you describe them. On a double-layer disc, that would give you 5 to 6 episodes as you describe them.

The way it's done in retail mastering is to encode a video in segments and set the per-segment bitrate higher or lower depending on how much detail, motion, or other factors are involved in each segment. Lots of detail (crowd scenes, etc.) requires more bitrate than static scenes with 2 people who aren't doing much of anything. Lots of motion (car chases, spots play, etc.) requires much more bitrate. Animation with large smooth areas or fine gradation requires higher than average bitrates to prevent macroblocks.

I can suggest at least one good way to get some answers. Encode a short segment of MPEG2 and see what you get. That's the way most of us do it.
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