Still clip jump

[SSStudio]

I have a still image overlay which starts at 00;00;00;00 and fades in to full at 00;00;02;00 (2 secs) and has a 3min:50sec duration which ends on a 4sec fade out. This is not an AP6.5 title...it's a graphic generated in Adobe PS and saved as an LZW compressed .tif to allow for transparency.

The size is 720 x 405 aspect 16:9. Yes, 405 not 480. This was a reduction from a 2304 x 1296, 16:9 which were the attributes of a single frame capture from the original AVCHD source. I used an IfranView batch conversion on 8 graphic images created in PS reducing to 720 horizontal and forced it to maintain the original aspect ratio - and that's how I ended up with the 720 x405.

THE PROBLEM IS:

The starting still image overlay looks like it stretches vertically and "jumps" down the screen slightly at exactly (precise frame count of) 00;00;02;00 - after the fade-in completes. There are 7 other similar graphic stills that follow with similar durations and individual fade-in/outs. None of these subsquent stills exhibit this behavior (of the starting still).

It seems as though Premiere "learns" that it must compensate for the 405 vs 480 vertical dimension, but cannot do so within the fade-in effect which initiates the clip. After Premiere makes the initial adjustment, it handles the other stills assuming the same processing required of similar sources appearing along the same video track.

That's the only way I can explain it.

I checked for un-intended motion for the starting still and nothing is set. And I looked for a hidden overlapping still on the track (which I don't think is possible). I also made sure there was no shy track hidden in the project.

I suppose the short answer might be to resize the source stills and force 720x480, but since I no longer have the higher res .psd for each graphic (just one) I would have to edit the one to reproduce all 8 cases and resave each one down to the 720x480. Alternatively, I could image adjust the current .tif sources in PS and accept the interpolation to go from 405 to 480 vert.

Your thoughts?

[admin]

I would not use compression on a TIF for a project. It's just one more thing to decompress on the timeline. Are semi-transparent PNG's supposed in Prem6.5? I don't remember if PNG was out and common then. (Sorry, can't load Premiere 6.5 right now to test for myself, that system is busy. You'd want/need a more modern Photoshop for PNG saving, I use CS3. I don't recall which of the older versions correctly saves PNG.) Another option is to just use a PSD -- those are valid in Premiere, too. With transparency, I believe, too.

Sorry to sound so vague, I haven't needed to use Premiere heavily in probably 6 months now. Everything is a bit fuzzy right now. Most of my work has been conversion lately, not a lot of editing. Ironically, my conversion work has been for other editors!

For 4x3 content, Premiere 6.5 likes 640x480 graphics, or 720x540 graphics. Don't use 720x480. I'm assuming NTSC video here, not PAL. I don't know that I've ever edited 16:9 in 6.5 -- by the time 16x9 work became common, I was already using CS versions of Premiere. So while 720x405 sounds right to me, there may be a resize issue going on, much like it happened with 720x480 sizes on 4x3. Try 640x360, and see how that acts. Yes, that's not an ideal resolution, but it will suffice as a test to see if the error is a simple resolution-based problem.

Irfanview may have also done something stupid to the files. I see that with low-end/freeware graphics tools all the time.

Another option is to try and insert a 1-frame-length all-black image in the timeline at the start of the video, and see if your theory of "it needs to mess up first, and compensate later" holds true. This will give it some cannon fodder, and then move on to your intro fade-in, although it will now be the second instance of an image on the timeline. I don't know why this would work, but I've seen weirder things.

This could also be an interlacing-related issue, although I don't recall if your 16x9 is interlaced or not. The 1-frame offset may fix that one, too.

I've run into a similar issue, once, about 4-5 years ago. But that was a personal project, and I really didn't care. I left it as-is. The 1-field jump was the least-worst problem on the disc (bad source video).

[SSStudio]

I'm using PS CS2. I couldn't get a transparent PNG. Apart from LZW, .tif is too huge to work with other than a few stills. I hadn't thought of .psd directly, although they're really big too.

I don't think the "jump" is a resolution, aspect, or interlace problem. AP 6.5 is handling the 720x480 @ 16:9 really well throughout and the NTSC preset demands it anyway. Its compatible with the downconversion directly from AVCHD. Of course, AP CS4 handles AVCHD directly now which is where I need to go...for $299 upgrade.

I doubt the IfranView is the issue since the other images have no such problem, were produced in the same batch, and my first still was not first or last in the batch conversion.

I already tried a front-end image to buy some breathing room as well as just shifting back further on the timeline before encountering the subject still. No help.

I'm going to resize the first still from 720x405 to 480 in PS and see what happens. I'll bet the behavior then shifts to the second still which will then become the first occurance of the off-size 720x405 on the timeline. I'll let you know.

[admin]

Yeah, but CS4 is such a resource hog that you'll need a quad-core and a ton of RAM. I only have it installed on one system, and I honestly hate to use it. I prefer CS3. Of course, I'm not yet working with a lot of AVCHD material.

I still say to insert a black 1-frame image, to help reinforce or deny the first-occurance theory.

[admin]

Oh, and PNG-24, just to clarify, not PNG-8.

[SSStudio]

Ok...here's the status:

1) Premiere 6.5 does not provide import of any .png 8,24, transparent or otherwise. It does not show up as a listed extension for file import. Did I overlook something?

2) I noticed in the project bin listing that my new AVI (exported from VirtualDub) is at .9 aspect. The AP6.5 generated titles within the project are at 1.2 as are my graphic stills. Was there a Save setting in VDub that I missed? This does not seem to affect the 16:9 display in the monitor window and the AP6.5 generated preview looks fine.

3) I tried your black frame test as the quicker, more elegant test. No help for the jump stretch problem for the first still. HOWEVER, I adjusted the still on the timeline so that its occurrence is after the fade in transition (on the transition track between video 1A and 1B) of the main (AVI) project clip on video 1A. As soon as I did that, the stretch jump behavior was eliminated. I tested again by extending the clip transition fade-in to overlap the first still fade-in - the behavior returned. Then I thought, what if having both the graphic still as well as the main clip fade-ins overlap (happen at the same time) was the problem...so I took the fade-in off the first still...behavior problem as well. So, I have adjusted my timeline design to avoid having the AVI clip fade-in transition overlap with the first still.

And that's the resolution until I find out what is really the reason for the problem.

[admin]

1. Probably not. 6.5 may bee too old for PNG. I would try PSD with transparency, instead. I've used that before.

2. I really don't know. 0.9 refers to the non-square pixel sizes on DV material. Off the top of my head, I don't know what 1.2 is supposed to be. Because of how old 6.5 is, sometimes it doesn't "speak English" (if you could call all the video terms English!)

3. That's just so strange. The older 6.5 itself isn't always elegant at editing. Sometimes problems like this just have no answers. I've spent a lot of time at the Adobe forums in the past, and probably 50-75% of questions never seem to have solutions.

[SSStudio]

OK...I'm old enough to accept that and not stomp my feet in a temper tantrum.

So here goes...I'll be exporting the full 57min timeline starting tonight.
Any last minute config suggestions for the MainConcept 1.3 MPEG codec?

[admin]

Not really. These older MainConcept versions don't have as many setting options as the latest MainConcept Reference or Adobe Media Encoders.

Basically just use DVD settings, with VBR, at a maximum bitrate for your video. For best quality, you'll want at least 6000-7000k minimum, for 720x480 video. If anything is handheld shot, then push it to 8000-9000k.

If the video is short, under an hour, you can use CBR at a high bitrate.

[SSStudio]

First timeline export stats:

2 hrs 48 mins to encode; 102595 frames @ NTSC DVD 16:9 high bitrate VBR 7500 avg 9750 max 6500 min; Video Encoder Quality 40. Movie duration is 57 mins.

Are these settings ok?

Results:
Not bad. Not great. Glitchy @ 00;00;20;00 while transition from 1st to second still - after first still comes and goes fine the second still flashes in and out for a few moments then everything settles down for rest of timeline.

Is this just a coincident of bad encoding or a poor setting?
Re-exporting first 32 secs got rid of this behavior.
(hmmm ?)

Noticed the stills were set at Square pixel aspect (probably at original import). AP6.5 project bin doesn't report the 720 x 405 stills with any aspect in () like other sources in bin which say (1.2).

I'll try setting the stills to 1.2 aspect (select still; right-click menu; advanced options) and then try a second short 32 sec export.

Or, should I be using a high CBR since duration is <1 hour ?

[SSStudio]

Latest timeline export stats:

1 hrs 30 mins to encode; 102595 frames @ NTSC DVD 16:9 high bitrate VBR 7500 avg 9750 max 6500 min; Video Encoder Quality 40. Movie duration is 57 mins.

WOW ! the most significant thing I did was to re-create the graphic stills in PS (CS2) and import the native .psd's to the project and swap the .tif's out with them. I did this because I wanted to refine the graphics and needed independent layer control. It worked really well with merge or selected layer importing...and the encoding SPEED pickup was another huge bonus.

I think you're absolutely correct in emphasizing uncompressed media for Premiere and this yields quality AND speed...both within the editor and for exporting.

You know, since I started getting your help one week ago, I have progressed from a 5 day encoding disaster and workstation lockups to a pleasurable editing experience and a mere 90 minute encoding...for the same project!

[admin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSStudio

2 hrs 48 mins to encode; 102595 frames @ NTSC DVD 16:9 high bitrate VBR 7500 avg 9750 max 6500 min; Video Encoder Quality 40. Movie duration is 57 mins.
Are these settings ok?

This will give you a video that is probably too large to fit on a single-layer DVD. You'll want to just plan on this being a DVD+R DL production.

NOTE: If you're submitting for replication, be sure to clear with your press that DVD+R DL is okay as a master. It is accepted at some places, but not all. Referrals available.

I was about to reply to this:

Quote:

Not bad. Not great. Glitchy @ 00;00;20;00 while transition from 1st to second still - after first still comes and goes fine the second still flashes in and out for a few moments then everything settles down for rest of timeline.
Is this just a coincident of bad encoding or a poor setting?
Re-exporting first 32 secs got rid of this behavior.
(hmmm ?)

but....

Quote:

the most significant thing I did was to re-create the graphic stills in PS (CS2) and import the native .psd's to the project and swap the .tif's out with them. I did this because I wanted to refine the graphics and needed independent layer control. It worked really well with merge or selected layer importing...and the encoding SPEED pickup was another huge bonus.

.... it sounds like there is no longer an issue? Swapping out to PSD fixed this issue?

Quote:

should I be using a high CBR since duration is <1 hour ?

In the interest of speed, I would do high bitrate CBR on a short piece. It's faster than 2-pass VBR. There's really no need to compress when space is available.

Quote:

You know, since I started getting your help one week ago, I have progressed from a 5 day encoding disaster and workstation lockups to a pleasurable editing experience and a mere 90 minute encoding...for the same project!

Very glad to hear this!

I started with Premiere 5 some many years ago, but really cut my teeth on Premiere 6.0 and 6.5 for DVD and VCD production. In those days, computers were much slower, documentation was sparse, and there really was nowhere to seek help online. That's one reason I made this place --- because there wasn't anywhere else to get help. I had to learn all this stuff the hard way, and hoped I could spare others from the same kind of misery. Mission accomplished, it seems!

[SSStudio]

Yes Sir...mission accomplished...and still going!

I should have more closely isolated the two issues, but yes I think the glitching went away the same time I swapped out the first .tif for a new .psd. I assume they are related. But interestingly, this had not appeared before even when the stills were .tif. The preview render doesn't show it in either event. It appears in the output of the MC 1.3 MPEG encoder.

Another video track editing thing I learned:

Unless the graphics are created within Premiere, like titles, imported video graphic stills should have the "Maintain Aspect Ratio" disabled (not checked) and the Advanced Video "Pixel Aspect Ratio" set for .9 (not 1.2 like the titles or the desired output). This permits a proper proportional appearance in the NTSC 720x480 16:9 widescreen format. The .9 hint was initially revealed by the AVI source and the settings shown in Premiere. The titles however are set to 1.2 (equal to the desired output) as preset by Premiere.

I had been diligently re-setting the imported graphic stills to "Maintain Aspect Ratio" and the "Pixel Aspect Ratio" to 1.2 - the result was a stretched distortion in the output. Newbie dumb light on...
Premiere though imports the graphic stills with the pixel ratio set at 1.0 square until you change it.

I wish there was a multiple object selection functionality (ctrl + click) which would permit these video parameter settings to be applied in batch. Same for other attributes. The multi-selection shows as such until you attempt these criteria. Is it dependent upon the specific parameter? I use the attribute paste function when I can, but I haven't been successful on a multiple object selection.

I also thought that you could use the "pan hand" tool to move (drag) an object along the timeline - leaving it's duration intact. But once initially placed, it's start & end can be independently adjusted...but the object can't be shifted (substantially) without re-placing. I didn't see any shortcut on the Quick Ref Card either.