Quantcast 1080i or 720p for Youtube? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
10-19-2012, 10:00 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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I want to upload a video to youtube that was recorded in 1080i. Should I

1. Render the video in 1080i, upload it to Youtube, and recommend people to watch it in 720p or

2. Render the video as 720p and upload it to Youtube

Thanks!
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  #2  
10-19-2012, 11:28 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Upload it as 1080. Youtube has finally begun to auto de-interlace uploaded 1080i content, at least the MPEG-2 HDV streams I throw at them. Its far from perfect, but a heck of a lot quicker than de-interlacing with AviSynth before uploading.
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  #3  
10-21-2012, 10:32 AM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Thank you but I just remembered that I have to combine 1080i footage and with a little bit of NTSC SD footage. So in that case would 720p make sense, since the available screen is smaller?
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  #4  
10-21-2012, 02:08 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Either way, you have to deinterlace and upscale the SD footage. You might as well keep it 1080.
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  #5  
10-21-2012, 06:16 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Yes, but isn't it a big difference to stretch the video to 1080 vs 720?
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  #6  
10-22-2012, 10:57 AM
jmac698 jmac698 is offline
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It is more of a stretch, but consider that it's going to get stretched anyway if the user views it full screen on a big monitor. In that case, what you could do for upscaling is probably better than what the playback program is doing to do. Using needi in Avisynth is one of the best upscalers, even in research comparisons.
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  #7  
10-22-2012, 11:11 AM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Thanks but unfortunately I work on a Mac, and have premiere pro. But isn't that the point--the playback program would be lacking (though NJRoadfan disagrees)? If I upload it as 1080i it will have to be view downscaled anyway, at 720 p, to avoid artifacts. But if I upload it as 720p, the SD footage is only stretched to fit a 720 screen and not a 1080 screen. Unless I'm mistaken?

The large majority of viewers will not be watching full-screen, and they are secondary.
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  #8  
10-22-2012, 12:14 PM
jmac698 jmac698 is offline
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Sure, if it's just a box on a webpage 720p is fine. He said 1080i gets automatically deinterlaced; but I don't know if he's referred to the re-encoding, or the webplayer that YouTube uses. I'm not the expert on YouTube.

It's possible that your 1080i footage (and even NTSC) isn't really interlaced, this is a bit hard to explain but it can be film or 30p progressive stored in a 1080i video. I don't know Premier or if it can handle such a situation. The proper way to deal with those two cases is IVTC, which isn't the same as deinterlacing. IVTC creates a real progressive video with no estimation or rescaling.

Deinterlacing applied to true interlaced video has to fill in missing lines, so there is an estimate or interpolation involved.
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  #9  
10-22-2012, 02:42 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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You are correct--the video I have was originally recorded in 1080 24p. However, Premiere can't handle it and I do not believe fcp can do it either, as it was not recorded in 24pA. Vegas can deal with this, but I don't have it.
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  #10  
10-22-2012, 03:33 PM
jmac698 jmac698 is offline
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Ugh, that sucks. It would be so easy in Avisynth. Well, you can run it on a Mac, as there are now two other ways to run Avisynth plugins, avxsynth and vapoursynth. Besides that, there's always wine for Mac.
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  #11  
10-22-2012, 07:41 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Thanks but I don't drink, and as I have a 10.5, my mac has a low tolerance. But Vapoursynth seems like it may work. I found one link about converting from 60i to 24p

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Convert60ito24p

But the second post here advises against it, though I don't know if the person is distinguishing pure 60i from 60i that was originally 24p (http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?3...60i-HDV-to-24P)

Anyway, this is assuming the same script would even work on the mac version.
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  #12  
10-22-2012, 11:49 PM
jmac698 jmac698 is offline
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Ha, I mean this wine
http://www.davidbaumgold.com/tutorials/wine-mac/

As for the actual script, it's not that hard - the link you gave is for frame rate conversion with blending, which is yet another thing. Stick with IVTC.
Code:
AVISource("input.avi")
TFM(order=0) #0=BFF, 1=TFF
TDecimate()
Using TIVTC http://web.missouri.edu/~kes25c/

And in Vapoursynth there's
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...69#post1596969

See if you can get vapoursynth installed, I haven't used it myself but I can probably figure it out without having to learn Python.
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  #13  
10-23-2012, 10:04 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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My opinion is to
Step1 - deinterlace and downscale the 1080i to 720p.
Step2 - deinterlace then downscale (in that order) the 480i (NTSC SD) to 720p
Step3 - edit together
Step4 - upload to Youtube

Youtube's deinterlacer sucks. I wouldn't use it at all.

If the frame rates don't match, you'll need to either telecine one (24p>60i), or IVTC the other (but only if it's telecined).

If you want to see a good example of a video project abortion, look at the Bob Kane bonus feature on that September 2012 release of The Dark Knight Returns: Part 1 (animated feature) Blu-ray edition. It's the most god-awful release I've ever come across. Interlacing lines in the upscaled footage, jerky framerates, chroma noise in older clips, etc. I'd like to find who did this butcher job, and punch him in the face. I bought the Blu-ray solely for this feature, and I could barely stand to watch it. Don't repeat the lousy job that asshat did.

I was watching Simon & Simon S1 from Hulu this morning, and episode #4 has interlacing lines. Ugh!

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  #14  
10-23-2012, 01:56 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Thank you, yes, I knew which wine you were referring to! The original question was based on me giving up on trying to remove the 2:3:3:2 pulldown. I recorded on standard 24p, so there are no pull down flags on the video, and the quality will be less since the c frame is not compressed separately. Will the filter work just the same? There, of course, is another problem, that being that my video is .m2t. I've read I can use the DirectShowSource function, but how would I fit it in with the reverse telecine?

Hopefully my video will be absent of the most common flaws, but as I'm not a filmmaker by trade, I won't hold my breath. Hulu is usually a waste of time since some of it can be found elsewhere commercial-free (including Simon and Simon). It's also a waste of money if you're paying to watch it!
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  #15  
10-27-2012, 11:09 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
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Also, I tried using Cinema Tools to convert those video files I had which were not in .m2t. It worked, except when I scroll through the video frame by frame I still see frames that are between two frames (I can see the layer underneath). I assume that this indicates that the program picked the wrong frame for deinterlacing?
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  #16  
10-28-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winsordawson View Post
Also, I tried using Cinema Tools to convert those video files I had which were not in .m2t. It worked, except when I scroll through the video frame by frame I still see frames that are between two frames (I can see the layer underneath). I assume that this indicates that the program picked the wrong frame for deinterlacing?
That tends to describe frame merging, sometimes called "blend", "blur" or "double" deinterlacing.
Instead of throwing out a frame, or carefully merging two frames, it just lazily smushes them together into one frame.
This method has heavy ghosting as a result.

There are some deinterlacing samples about 50% down the page: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/guides/vid...nd-sources.htm
Look over that.

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