Quantcast Exporting interlaced video from Premiere? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
02-14-2019, 04:46 AM
Sparx Sparx is offline
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Hello, hope everyone is well I have a rather fun issue that has been causing me a headache. I'll try to keep it brief

Didn't know that premier pro was interpreting the (PAL VHS) footage as progressive when I dragged it onto the timeline. Then I export to progressive for web. (right click on the item "always de interlace" > export (make sure its set to progressive). Done.

Well the resulting files I've been very happy with, however I was looking closely today and noticed that "Hey...hey these aren't progressive at all!" I could see combing.

So after a fiddle I changed the project settings so that the sequence is set to interlaced (lff)...then when I export to progressive in the same manner as before, it is ACTUALLY progressive. Hooray! Hooray for the progressive deinterlaced mess that adobe premier creates.

That's the back story.

My actual question is "what have I been creating?"
so it went:
Avi file from capture card
into adobe premier where it detected it as progressive (though it is PAL VHS (interlaced))
right clicked and "always deinterlace"
exported to progressive....

Resulting footage looks very much interlaced.
so has adobe just passed it through as interlaced still and no harm done. I have my interlaced version and can be happy with that?

or has it done something more sinister and ...flattened(?) the interlaced footage into progressive, so that it looks interlaced but is actually progressive?

**edit**
I have just exported both versions, (incorrectly progressive) and correctly interlaced and they are the same file size, and look identical. This is kind of leading me to believe that premier has done nothing in the original (incorrect progressive) way I was doing it, no processing other than compression. Unless there is a header thing?


Does any of this make sense? Also quickie just to make sure I'm not doubley screwing things up PAL VHS...lower field first right am using a ATI HD USB600 I bought from the USA and had shipped to the UK.

Last edited by Sparx; 02-14-2019 at 05:39 AM. Reason: clarification and bonus question
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  #2  
02-15-2019, 06:24 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparx View Post
So after a fiddle I changed the project settings so that the sequence is set to interlaced (lff)...then when I export to progressive in the same manner as before, it is ACTUALLY progressive. Hooray! Hooray for the progressive deinterlaced mess that adobe premier creates.
That's one way of putting it. Aside from possible problems with the actual Adobe settings, Premiere is a very poor deinterlacer, and so are most NLE editors. No one here has ever recommended Premiere as a deinterlacer. We advise against it. The usual recommendation is QTGMC, currently the world's premiere deinterlacer. As a decent alternative we would recommend various implementations of the yadif filter. As far as simple, barely adequate deinterlace performance, a simple bob deinterlace with VirtuaLDub would be no better than Premiere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparx View Post
My actual question is "what have I been creating?"
so it went:
Avi file from capture card
into adobe premier where it detected it as progressive (though it is PAL VHS (interlaced))
right clicked and "always deinterlace"
exported to progressive....
Those are several bad procedures in a row.
Never capture analog using an NLE editor. Repeat: never.
Never deinterlace during capture using an NLE. Repeat: never. Specifically, don't use Premiere to deinterlace.

Can't answer all of your other questions about Premiere because no one here can see your settings. I can say, however, that you're definitely going down the wrong road with Adobe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparx View Post
Also quickie just to make sure I'm not doubley screwing things up PAL VHS...lower field first
PAL VHS is almost always top field first. Capturing to a lossy bottom-field DV codec using Adobe is not a good choice. We strongly recommend against it.

If you have a lossless capture, learn to use VirtualDub to make a short 8 top 10 seconds of unfiltered sample to post in this forum. If you don't know how to do this, just ask. If you're not using a lossless capture, you're more or less starting out by working with lower quality material.
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02-15-2019, 06:33 AM
Sparx Sparx is offline
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I should have been a trifle more clear, it's my fault!
When I say avi from capture card - the avi is created in virtualdub, lossless.

I'm throwing that avi file linto premier for the purposes of editing and exporting

It's technically
JVC HR S8965 over s-video into a ATI HD USB600 (from the states) > VirtualDub with Huffy.

Then into adobe premier to edit it.

-- merged --

I threw the Avi file into TEMPEG and it seems to think it is BFF too :/ I was wondering if the fact the capture card is from the US intead of the UK it has flipped dominance?

If you could have a quick look at it that would be brilliant!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eZ...I6SXq7YQ318q0q
(179mb)

You seem really against adobe premiere . Does that extend to using it just as an editing tool?
I don't think I really need to de interlace to be honest, much of the footage looks fine as it is (a lot of it is actually just stationary and you don't see the combing) and I was never happy with the idea of de-interlacing in the first place.

(edit) I love how google has re-encoded it for that video player! Download link to the original .avi is in the upper right hand!

-- merged --

If anyone could have a look at it and let me know if I'm right about field order on it I would really appreciate it, pulling my hair out haha!
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  #4  
02-15-2019, 05:15 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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You can visually check the field order yourself in Virtualbud. Load the video and select the deinterlacing filter. Manually pick top field first, then step forward thu the video frame by frame. If things that move, move normally then it is indeed TFF. If it jumps back and forth then it's bottom field first.

Erich
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02-15-2019, 06:07 PM
Sparx Sparx is offline
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I just had a good play around, when I finally worked out how to use filters (I thought they weren't loading and then I discovered the "add" button. doh!) I loaded the de-interlace filter and left the left side as interpolate using yadif
but the right side the four options
Keep top field
Keep Bottom field
I couldn't see any bouncing back and forth on either, just looked like normal motion.

but!
when i did
double frame rate - top field first
double frame rate - bottom field first (bouncing back and forth like you said!)

From this I glean that it is indeed TFF!
So am I using the filter correctly in order to determine field order? Did I just graduate a little? Haha.
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02-15-2019, 08:07 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparx View Post
So am I using the filter correctly in order to determine field order? Did I just graduate a little? Haha.
Yes, good work.

Thanks for the sample and for filling inn the capture info.

Yes, your sample is interlaced TFF. The tape is in very poor condition and distorted by a lot of dropouts (horizontal rips and tears) and line twitter. QTGMC and RemoveDirtMC filters fixed some of it, but you'll never get rid of all of it without seriously creating more damage. The original appears to be somewhat overexposed, which I didn't correct because highlights are blown out anyway and can't be recovered. Your sample was also inadvertently converted to RGB, which didn't help. I deinterlaced, then resized with Spline36Resize for internet posting, which appears to be your ultimate goal. You can't post anamorphic 720x576 video to the internet (you can post square-pixel formats only. I used 640480). The encoded audio is for the internet at 44100hz. However, you should still capture at full PAL 720x576 with PCM audio in order to get good capture resolution and uncompressed audio for restoration and filtering.

The attached VHS45_qtgmc_50p_4x3.mp4 is double-rate deinterlaced for web posting.
If the website won't accept 50p, the attached VHS45_qtgmc_25p_4x3.mp4 used QTGMC to discard the second interpolated second frames.
As usual, the 50p version looks cleaner and smoother than the 25p.

Please do not post samples offsite. When your offsite video goes away, most of this thread will be useless. I took the liberty of losslessly recompressing your RGB sample to YUY2 with Lagarith, which reduced the file size to 50% of your RGB sample. Attached as VHS45L.avi. If you don't have Lagarith, get it: https://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html.


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 VHS45_qtgmc_50p_4x3.mp4 (3.65 MB, 7 downloads)
File Type: mp4 VHS45_qtgmc_25p_4x3.mp4 (3.67 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: avi VHS45L.avi (48.09 MB, 4 downloads)
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  #7  
02-15-2019, 08:55 PM
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Software is often stupid. When it comes to interpreting interlacing, software is even dumber than normal. What you have, VHS captured lossless on ATI 600 USB, is top-field interlaced (TFF). The end. It cannot be anything else.

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  #8  
02-16-2019, 03:00 AM
Sparx Sparx is offline
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Thank you for your help, everyone! Yet again this forum proves absolutely absolutely irreplaceable!! I feel much better moving forward.
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