Any way to convert SECAM tape to PAL?

[SampleText800]

Hello again!

As I now have a VCR that has a TBC in it, I've tried using it, but unfortunately
it does not play SECAM tapes. Now this may sound ridiculous, I know.
However I have two other VCRs, both of which can play both SECAM and PAL
just fine. I have tried various kinds of connecting and only one seemed to have
worked, but only for a couple tapes, as most of them would display pink artefacts
or flat out display blinking pink and orange "blocks". I have also tried recording
the SECAM tape onto a PAL one, but this doesn't work. I also have heard of
transcoders, but I would not rather build my own tools from scratch.

I think it would be more convenient for me to convert my tapes into PAL, but how
exactly do I do that? Can I simply use these two VCRs to record SECAM tapes to
PAL ones? Or is it impossible? I'd need help on that one.

I hope my question did not sound too dumb!

[hodgey]

Are you trying to capture them or are you dubbing tapes to other tapes?

In either case going via a dvd-recorder for stabilization and optionally SECAM->PAL would be an option, e.g a Panasonic DMR-ES10, ES15 or similar (most from the ES10 on with a few exceptions should be able to do a decent job) (can clip brights without some workaround), or alternatively Pioneer DVR-430 and newer/Sony RDR-HX750 and newer (not quite as good as correcting for issues but more transparent/doesn't have the same brightness issues).

[SampleText800]

I am trying to put SECAM footage onto a PAL tape, so I can read the PAL tape with my S-VHS VCR and still have the colours.

[latreche34]

Don't dub to another tape, bad idea, just do what hodgey said. Or keep an eye for a good SECAM VHS player.

[SampleText800]

Gotcha.

So wait, you are saying I can simply use one of these Panasonic DMR-ES10 or ES15 - for instance - as a pass-through to convert SECAM to PAL, right? I'm not sure I quite get it...

[latreche34]

Yes that's right.

[SampleText800]

So I know it can seem like I'm dragging at this point, but if I were to get a PANASONIC DMR-ES15, would it have to be SECAM-input compatible? It'd be connected between two VCRs then, so I don't know if it'd need to be SECAM-compatible or not.

Thanks for the massive help anyway

[hodgey]

All the european panasonic DVD-recorders from PAL/SECAM areas support SECAM input (in addition to PAL and standard NTSC) as far as I know, it's noted in the manual and will output PAL/SECAM input as PAL on the S-Video and composite outputs (component, RGB and HDMI output are always the same for both formats as only the frame rate and number of lines matters for those.) Even the french panasonics seem to output in PAL judging by the french manuals at least.

If you are digitizing you would passing the video from the VCR through the dvd-recorder and into the capture cards from one of the outputs on it, if you for whatever reason want to dub the tape to another tape in PAL you could connect the output to a VCR instead. (Dubbing a tape to another just to be able to play it in the SVHS deck with TBC enabled is pointless since dubbing it will degrade the quality.)

[SampleText800]

Okay then!
Many thanks for the info! Will try to get one of these Panasonic DMR-ES10/15, unless I can use just a regular Panasonic DVD-Player/Recorder ^^

[mbassiouny]

an additional option is using one of those cypress CDM convertors, these convertors have TBC/FrameSync. so you will get the advantage of TBC during the conversion. I have one of these that I am still in the process of testing. I am not recommending it, but just saying it exists as an option, maybe someone else can confirm if it is a good idea or not.

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to do? are you trying to capture on PC?

If so, your workflow could be:
SECAM compatible VCR --> Cypress CDM with TBC --> capture card

[SampleText800]

I am trying to digitise my SECAM tapes with the best quality possible. I have an SVHS VCR which has a line TBC in it,
but it can only read PAL tapes, so I thought converting a SECAM tape to PAL would've been a good idea, since finding
TBCs are a pain and I truly can't find anything I can buy.

That said, I will consider the Cypress CDM Converters as well!

[mbassiouny]

> I am trying to digitise my SECAM tapes
> so I thought converting a SECAM tape to PAL

So if I get it right, your idea is that you want to use "line TBC" inside your PAL deck for your Secam? There is no direct way to do this without huge damage, forget about your nice PAL only VCR.

Ideally what you want is a SECAM VCR with line TBC:

See here: https://vcrshop.com/nl/product/video...-nr-pal-secam/

The writing at the back is French, which implies it is oriented to French market, but still just in case, message the seller and double check.

If you don't want to pay 500€ for a new VCR, then using the ES10/15 as others have recommended as "line TBC" substitute may be fine but it depends on what issues do you actually have with your recordings, ES10 introduces some issues, but solves some others. do you really need it? is the improvement good enough and worth the couple of issues introduced by them? Also it depends heavily on how good/bad is your current SECAM VCR.

AFAIK, in a capturing workflow, your number 1 priority should be getting a good VCR, this is where everything starts. If you have the best Capture card and the best TBC, a bad VCR will still give poor results.

So step 1:
pick according to your budget between:
- your current VCR + ES10/15
- A new good secam VCR
- Your current deck
and possibly you might need a better VCR but need the TBCish power of DVD recorder instead of the builtin line TBC of the VCR. It all depends on how much are you willing to spend.

Now simply plug from The VCR or the dvd recorder into your capture card and capture on your PC, as Hodgey mentioned.

If you can afford it you might add a frame TBC before the capture card, like cypress CTB-100 or some Cypress CDM, not all CDM models work with SECAM tho, also make sure that you are getting a nice one and not one with the flawed chip. Cypress devices made after 2010 are defective see http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vcr-...-8710-doa.html
which the CDM devices made in 2012 that are available on ebay atm are defective, don't buy them.

personally I would go for :
the suggested JVC VCR with TBC + an unflawed cypress TBC + hauppauge USB live2

All of these will work fine with SECAM afaik.

[lollo2]

Suggestion confirmed: I capture Secam VHS without problem with JVC HR-S9500MS and Hauppauge USB Live-2.

[Laurence02]

Do be aware, however, that it is highly dubious that many SECAM decks at all have working TBC for SECAM playback.

Check out this post (and a few prior) for what the manuals say about that:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post75072

Quote:

This means that I can only find that the HR-S8700MS, and the HR-S9700MS, may have SECAM TBC functionality.

Note that this means that the HR-S7700MS which was linked earlier in this thread likely does not have SECAM TBC.

[mbassiouny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurence02

Note that this means that the HR-S7700MS which was linked earlier in this thread likely does not have SECAM TBC.

Bien vu! Sorry I did not check the manual before linking to that VCR, from the manual

Quote:

● En lisant une bande SECAM ou MESECAM, Digital TBC/NR ne marche pas même si la touche DIGITAL TBC/NR est allumée.

(no line TBC on SECAM even if the led says it is active).

But I think this guy can get away without (line) TBC (and maybe even frame tbc), his use case is very weird, he records from gaming console to tape then digitize the tape. He does not necessarily have tapes that has issues to even need a TBC to correct them.

[Laurence02]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbassiouny

But I think this guy can get away without (line) TBC (and maybe even frame tbc), his use case is very weird, he records from gaming console to tape then digitize the tape. He does not necessarily have tapes that has issues to even need a TBC to correct them.

Yeah, sure! Why get a TBC-capable unit if there isn't a plan to ever use it in connection with anything that would benefit from TBC? That's money down the well...

On topic: OP might as well just get a HR-S7600MS, or the Thomson Scenium VSH2080 rebrand, or a HR-7700MS, or a HR-S8600MS, or a HR-S9600MS. The HR-S8700MS and the HR-S9700MS, which still only perhaps (is anyone able to confirm what these decks actually do?) have a working TBC for SECAM tapes, could be overkill for this project.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbassiouny

But I think this guy can get away without (line) TBC (and maybe even frame tbc), his use case is very weird, he records from gaming console to tape then digitize the tape. He does not necessarily have tapes that has issues to even need a TBC to correct them.

Not really, Line TBC corrects mechanical imperfection of a tape transport not the aging of the tape, so the tape needs line timing correction in its first playback, He may not need frame TBC since the tape is played back on the same machine and the signal recorded is still fresh.

[mbassiouny]

Yeah, but the way I understood it is that he intentionally wants these errors, he wants this effect to appear in his captures.

[latreche34]

I don't think "I am trying to digitise my SECAM tapes with the best quality possible" means adding artifacts.