Quantcast Issues with washed out colors, JVC and AVT-8710? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
11-03-2019, 08:22 PM
FrostBite FrostBite is offline
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I'm using Virtualdub, avt 8710 and a SR V10U. Running coax to a sony trinitron for a monitor and s video to capture ATI G Wonder 600. Using bluejean s video cables.

The picture looks more washed out on the S video capture than the display on sony trinitron. Blues and Reds look brighter on the crt. What could possibly be causing this? Are colors naturally richer on a CRT? Is there an easy way to correct some of this in virtual dub?

I think part of it is the default on the AVT 8710. I bypassed it and got a brighter blue. I was able to turn the color up and get closer but still not perfect.

Where I started.



After bypassing avt 8710



After maxing out color on avt 8710



still not a rich vivid blue like the screen



Attached Images
File Type: png Bypass.png (397.6 KB, 38 downloads)
File Type: jpg Start.JPG (44.3 KB, 40 downloads)
File Type: jpg Color Max.JPG (61.8 KB, 42 downloads)
File Type: jpg tv display.jpg (87.7 KB, 41 downloads)
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  #2  
11-03-2019, 10:58 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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As I've learned on this forum, any monitor (TV, computer monitor, tablet, etc) can display things quite differently. The only way to get two monitors to display very closely is to have them both color calibrated. The only way I believe you can get accurate color (including boosting color to be more saturated) is in a video editor after capture. Virtualdub and Avisynth are the most recommended on the forum. When doing color correction of video, it really should be on a color accurate monitor (meaning it has been color calibrated, or maybe you buy a monitor that comes calibrated, but that may not be 100% accurate), which involves getting one of the devices and software packages out there to do this. It's the same thing used by those that color correct pictures in Photoshop. Although most TVs and monitors are not color calibrated, the best you can do is work with a monitor that is known to be calibrated. The only way you can truly control how it will look on other monitors is to calibrate them also, unfortunately. Without this, you can make it look good for now, but when the monitor changes the colors will appear different. Regarding video capture being dull, that is my experience. Once I correct video color/contrast with Virtualdub filters like ColorMill or Gradation Curves, or a Hue/Saturation filter, then I can use one of those same filters to boost the saturation a bit (but not too much) by looking at the video in the ColorTools Virtualdub plugin, which has a Vectorscope that shows if the video is in gamut (i.e. displayable as a real color and not over saturated). There's a wealth of threads on color correction in this forum, complete with sample videos and pictures of histograms/vectorscopes, etc. If you can search by user, sanlyn has posted some fantastic material that can go quite in depth. I highly recommend reading such threads and playing with these Virtualdub plugins (although Avisynth also has some plugins that may work), which can be found in the Virtualdub pack posted elsewhere on the forum.

Best of luck to you!
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  #3  
11-04-2019, 08:35 AM
FrostBite FrostBite is offline
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Man, thanks for the great reply! I will defintely do a search for sanlyn's posts. They sound great.


But to discuss the avt 8710 again. Should it darken and wash the colors as much as I'm seeing when set to default? The first 3 images posted are screencaps from the image capture in virtualdub. If I take the avt 8710 out of the chain, I get a richer brighter blue. But it has those bars. I put the avt 8710 back in the chain and I get a darker washed out blue but the bars are gone.

Do I perhaps have a defective unit?
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  #4  
11-04-2019, 10:27 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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The bars are actually present in the top screenshot with the AVT in-chain, too.

The contrast is lower in your AVT shots, which makes the whole image less vibrant regardless of cranking saturation. Using histograms and scopes will let you see the actual levels differences instead of just eyeballing.

There's something else that I can't investigate right now cause I'm on my phone. A line-to-line (field by field?) difference in the AVT shots compared to the original.

VCR menus and blue-backs aren't great as test material. The Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U's menus, for example, seem to be generated as a composite signal which is then decoded in a dirty/careless manner for the S-Video output. Viewing the menus over composite looks better, even though viewing tapes over S-Video looks better. Many VCR menus seem to be "240p" like a NES, which some devices either can't handle, or handle differently than 480i.

A DVD test pattern routed into the VCR's S-Video input should make a better reference than its internal menus for most purposes.

Lastly, the screenshots are nice as a preview, but to really analyze, a lossless video sample would be more useful since it avoids the RGB conversion. Even if it's just 1 frame in the file.
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The following users thank msgohan for this useful post: lordsmurf (11-13-2019)
  #5  
11-04-2019, 08:01 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Green (good) or black (known-flawed) AVT-8710)?
Where did it come from?
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  #6  
11-07-2019, 11:23 AM
FrostBite FrostBite is offline
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Black. Purchased many years ago.
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  #7  
11-13-2019, 11:50 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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That's a known issue with the black units. It goes berserk with so many aspects of video. What msgohan says is accurate, but it just gets much worse with bad equipment like that black AVT-8710.

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