Quantcast Vidonics MX1 TBC pops, clicks, dropouts? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
07-26-2020, 07:32 PM
jbandes jbandes is offline
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This is a great forum and I think I am in the correct place to ask this question. I am outputting audio from VHS tapes on a VHS recording into a Vidonics Mx1 to see if I can get rid of the tacking noise pops and clicks on some of these tapes. The Manual says it has a TBC "The MX-1 includes a time base corrector for top quality results" The VHS tapes have 6 hours recorded audio only of DJs from the famous Studio 54 night club from the 70s. Some play well but others have terrrible tracking noise (static, pops clicks etc.) Any thoughts on the best way to remove it?" I suspect that the TBC in the Videonics is good since the manuel has a full chapter to TBC but I am new and would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks
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  #2  
07-26-2020, 09:07 PM
WaxCyl WaxCyl is offline
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Hi jbandes. You possibly should have started your own thread.
The dropouts are more likely caused by deterioration of the tapes. If as you say some tapes have "poor tracking" then you would need a VCR technician to adjust the course tracking internally to match the tracking path of the original recording VCR. The TBC won't help with the dropouts because the Audio doesn't go though it! (Edited).
Click and pop removal software such as Sound Forge really would only help if there were minor crackling. It would be much better to correct this problem at the source. Can I suggest tape cleaning? They may have mould or maybe shedding. Have you wound the tapes from start to end several times? New VCR heads? VHS hifi is quite sensitive to tape path problems. Good Luck!

Last edited by WaxCyl; 07-26-2020 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Doh! mistake!
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  #3  
07-26-2020, 11:51 PM
jbandes jbandes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxCyl View Post
Hi jbandes. You possibly should have started your own thread.
The dropouts are more likely caused by deterioration of the tapes. If as you say some tapes have "poor tracking" then you would need a VCR technician to adjust the course tracking internally to match the tracking path of the original recording VCR. The TBC won't help with the dropouts because the Audio doesn't go though it! (Edited).
Click and pop removal software such as Sound Forge really would only help if there were minor crackling. It would be much better to correct this problem at the source. Can I suggest tape cleaning? They may have mould or maybe shedding. Have you wound the tapes from start to end several times? New VCR heads? VHS hifi is quite sensitive to tape path problems. Good Luck!
Yes I should have started a new thread. Sorry

I did think about what you have said and I think you are correct the improper tracking is probably because of the way the original was recorded. Especially since some play fine and so far only a few have this problem in a serious way. Yes I did rewind and fast forward a few times and check for mold. Thnafully the tape looks OK. I do have a bunch of software like sound forge and Studio One 5 and RX7 that I can hopefully use to clean it up a bit. Thanks for confirming what I actually think is the problem. The tracking on the effected tapes is probably just off. I should see if I have another unit around that I can try to play it on. Thanks so much for your reply
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07-27-2020, 07:40 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
DJs from the famous Studio 54 night club from the 70s.
Are these HiFi track recordings, or linear track recordings? (HiFi came to VHS in around 1984, so recordings made prior to that would be linear track audio. Later recordings would depend on the machine used.) Linear track audio is on the edge of the tape and thus at greater risk for variations due to tape storage and handling.

Anything recorded in SLP/EP mode has a much greater chance of being problematic, and playback will be greatly dependent on the condition of the original recording machine, and the machine used for playback. As noted in earlier posts trying different playback machines may net better audio on the problem tapes. Some makes/models are much better at SLP/EP playback than others.

The MX-1 TBC's primary purpose is as a frame synchronizer to enable transitions between two independent video signals. Other TBC benefits are a byproduct of that requirement. Signal clean-up performance will depend on how well it can read the sync information in the video input to determine field and line start.. Effect on the audio would be minimal if at all depending on how the system is configured for audio pass-thru.
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  #5  
08-06-2020, 04:42 PM
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MX-1 TBC is weak, intended for pro sources, not VHS/Hi8/etc (consumer sources).
Discussed many times, many posts, in past decade.

You must understand that "TBC" is a wide term, often abused by marketing depts. We're transferring VHS tapes, and so TBC will have specific requirements on what happens.

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08-06-2020, 07:28 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
MX-1 TBC is weak, intended for pro sources, not VHS/Hi8/etc (consumer sources).
FWIW: The Videonics MX-1 video mixer fell into the "prosumer" category occupied by the highest end consumer gear, and entry level professional gear. It was often used by event videographers (e.g., the "professional" wedding guys, some low budget industrial video shops, and organizations such as churches) mainly to edit/mix first generation tapes and some live mixes, but generally not by commercial broadcast studios. Its users mostly shot S-VHS, Hi-8, and later on variants of DV with gear such as the Panasonic AG-455, Canon L2 & XL1, Sony DCR-VX1000, and so on.

It include a wide variety of built-in transition for mixing/switching among up to four s-video and/or composite video sources (and could switch stereo audio too). It paired with the Videonics AB-1 Edit Suite controller and TM-1 Title Maker to provide a compact modest cost linear editing system for those markets. It could control both a recorder and the playback tape units, the mixer, and trigger the titler. The AB-1 enable near frame accurate editing of material that include time code (RCTC via LANC, LTC, or VITC).
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08-07-2020, 12:59 PM
jbandes jbandes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
FWIW: The Videonics MX-1 video mixer fell into the "prosumer" category occupied by the highest end consumer gear, and entry level professional gear. It was often used by event videographers (e.g., the "professional" wedding guys, some low budget industrial video shops, and organizations such as churches) mainly to edit/mix first generation tapes and some live mixes, but generally not by commercial broadcast studios. Its users mostly shot S-VHS, Hi-8, and later on variants of DV with gear such as the Panasonic AG-455, Canon L2 & XL1, Sony DCR-VX1000, and so on.

It include a wide variety of built-in transition for mixing/switching among up to four s-video and/or composite video sources (and could switch stereo audio too). It paired with the Videonics AB-1 Edit Suite controller and TM-1 Title Maker to provide a compact modest cost linear editing system for those markets. It could control both a recorder and the playback tape units, the mixer, and trigger the titler. The AB-1 enable near frame accurate editing of material that include time code (RCTC via LANC, LTC, or VITC).
Thanks, I have 3 devices fed into the Videonics unit and 2 of them (like the 8mm have no TBC) so the TBC on the Vdieonics is helpful. I also have an AG-1970 and it has a switch to activate the TBC. I can turn it on and off. Should I use the TBC on the AG-1970 or the TBC in the Videonics or both when using the AG-1970 to digitize VHS tapes with a canopus ADVC110 capture card. Thanks


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  #8  
08-07-2020, 01:40 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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The AG-1970 has a line TBC, so typically you would use both. However, at times an upstream TBC may cause issues for a downstream TBC, so test each way to see which way gives best results. And it is possible that not all tapes will give best results with the same configuration.
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08-07-2020, 06:28 PM
jbandes jbandes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
The AG-1970 has a line TBC, so typically you would use both. However, at times an upstream TBC may cause issues for a downstream TBC, so test each way to see which way gives best results. And it is possible that not all tapes will give best results with the same configuration.
Thank you very much for your help
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