Quantcast Interference in video capture? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
02-20-2021, 07:38 AM
kreso05 kreso05 is offline
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Hello everyone again. Im having some strange problems again and im not sure why but i think VCR is the problem. This is my workflow:

- JVC SR-V10E S-VHS VCR with line TBC
- Pinnacle 710 USB capture card
- Cypress CDM-831 PAL TBC
- Panasonic DMR-ES10E PAL DVD recorder
I also have video camera Handycam Video8 CCD-TR380E PAL from 8mm tapes.

Everything is PAL based

Every now and then when I put VHS tape in VCR and go for capture. I'm having interference in picture ( I will put videos in attachment ). I'm not sure how to explain, but I put like 30 VHS tapes in VCR and they play normally. I make normal capture and everyone is happy, but when I put next VHS tape in VCR, it has some strange interference that i'm not sure why it happens. Then I test that tape and I put her in 30$ cheap VCR and picture is great, ofc its not the same quality but there is 0 interference. Also when you try fast forward problem disappears. I also had problem with sound that I also made topic about and I could only solve it by putting VHS tape in 30$ cheap VCR and record it again. I take picture from SR-V10E and sound from cheap vcr and then combine them later. But I don't want to do this when it has bad picture. Maybe there is tracking problem because tape is 100% fine, but I cant find anything on remote that will solve that problem or even open up VCR and ''play'' with those 2 little things that are very close to head of VCR so you can raise them a bit up or down with screwdriver so manually set tracking, but its not that. Maybe im missing something out, im not sure. If there is no solution with this VCR I can only try to buy ''new'' one like JVC HR-S9700EU or JVC HR-S9850EU. Im not sure which is better. Thank you all for reply or any help.


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 test1final.mp4 (53.47 MB, 26 downloads)
File Type: mp4 test2final.mp4 (72.69 MB, 8 downloads)
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  #2  
02-20-2021, 07:51 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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It looks like some tracking issue (NOT alignment so don't mess with tape guides), it seems the VCR isn't picking up the tracking signal and is just drifting. Does it work if you simply play the tape again? Maybe the audio/control head is worn somehow or just dirty or something else is making it hard for it to read it properly.
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  #3  
02-20-2021, 08:03 AM
kreso05 kreso05 is offline
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I'm not sure. When I put another random tape in VCR it works normally. But when I take this ''interference'' tape and put it in cheap VCR it runs perfectly. But picture is not good in cheap VCR but there is 0 interference. Okay so alignment is not problem... tracking is. When i play tape from start everything is the same, same problem. Even when i take manual : https://www.manualslib.com/manual/84...page=18#manual and see on 18 page tracking. Buttons dont match and they dont work remote looks the same but buttons dont work as they say in manual. Like i dont have PR buttons i have CH button and i dont have that strange simbol button i have SP/LP button but when i press those things they dont work. Nothing happens ... its driving me crazy!
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  #4  
02-20-2021, 08:24 AM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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Maybe the problem tapes are LP? JVC VCRs have a reputation for not tracking slow speed tapes very well.

Often the Channel up and down buttons double as manual tracking buttons, and the usual way to reset to automatic tracking is to press both Channel up and down together. I'm not sure if that works from the remote, but it should work with the buttons on the face of the VCR.

Unfortunately, you might need to acquire a different VCR for these problematic tapes (or just use your basic VCR if there aren't very many--the quality of LP recordings is somewhat poor to begin with. You can use your ES10 as a line TBC). If you do want to buy a second high-end VCR, I think Panasonic has a better reputation in general for tracking of slow speed tapes. I think a good deck is the NV-HS1000, but I'm sure there are others. Check the list of recommended PAL decks here.

I agree with hodgey that you should definitely not try any mechanical adjustments to the JVC. Since it works well for most of your tapes that means the alignment is good. Tinkering with it would likely make it worse.
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  #5  
02-20-2021, 08:40 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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On jvc remotes, the I/II button switches between manual and automatic tracking I think. That doesn't help if the vcr isn't reading the tracking signal at all though.
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  #6  
02-20-2021, 08:52 AM
kreso05 kreso05 is offline
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Im testing a speed a bit. Like i sayd when i fast forward its great ( no interference ), now i tried slow down tape speed by little and there is no interference but everything is like slow motion. I cant capture like that, or when i set fast forward but just for a bit, everything is faster but again no interference... so speed of the tape ( playback ) is definitely a problem. So if this VCR plays everything in SP mode i cant even transfer it in EP mode. It simply wont let me. When i press that button, nothing happens. So tape must be in LP or EP mode... and this VCR wont play it normaly hmm okay. I only mention JVC because i know they are good decks and its a good company. But there is this one deck from this shop in europe which is close to me : https://vcrshop.com/nl/product/video...tal-tbc-dnr-4/
when i zoom in a bit i can see that he has SP/LP/EP button so maybe it will allow me to change tape speed and maybe this issue will disepear. What do you think ;?
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  #7  
02-20-2021, 09:03 AM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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To be clear, the SP/LP/EP buttons on VCRs are only used when recording. They have no function at all on playback.

The way it works is when a tape is recorded, you choose a speed using the button(s). During the recording, a control track is laid down onto the tape with pulses that correspond to the chosen speed.

When you play that tape in a VCR (either the same one that recorded it or any other), the VCR reads the control track pulses and that tells it what speed to use.

Your JVC isn't choosing the wrong speed (if it were you would hear audio that was too fast or too slow). It's that JVC VCRs have a reputation of not tracking LP/EP tapes as well as other brands do.
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  #8  
02-20-2021, 09:41 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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What vcr is the $30 vcr you got? Typically a vcr will show on the display, or with the on-screen display if the tape it's playing back is in lp or sp mode. I've never really noticed PAL JVCs having any particular issues with LP speed, tho I have had issues with a (JVC-made) Philips VR1100 sometimes losing tracking where other decks didn't on SP tapes.

I would also second the suggestion of trying another brand if you are going to get another VCR, if the JVC has tracking issues, another JVC is more likely to have issues with the same tape. I would first check if replaying the tape after ffwd/rewind helps, and try cleaning the audio/control head with some isopropyl alcohol.
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  #9  
02-20-2021, 10:54 AM
kreso05 kreso05 is offline
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cheap VCR name is LG - LV2398. Picture on him looks '' great '' but very good ( compared to JVC with interference ).And yes when i press play on him it says '' PLAY SP'' and runs smoothly ... i will put few pictures in attachment, one with name of VCR and second where it says on screen PLAY SP. So what then ? If its really a SP... why JVC wont play it and cheap one will ?

-- merged --

p.s. if a VCR has options to record a tape in SP/LP/EP like you sayd bookemdano. Then he should play them also. I mean if you record a tape in LP on JVC HR-S9700EU ... and then wanna view it later, my opinion is that its not okay if he wont playback it. If you know what i mean. If a VCR has options to record a tape in SP/LP/EP then he should also be able to playback same speed when you wanna watch that tape later.


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  #10  
02-20-2021, 10:59 AM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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Do you know if all the problematic tapes were recorded on the same VCR or camcorder? It's possible that whatever device recorded them was misaligned, and that the cheap VCR is closer or just more forgiving in tracking it.

Have you tried switching off the TBC on the JVC when playing those tapes? Does it make any difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kreso05 View Post
p.s. if a VCR has options to record a tape in SP/LP/EP like you sayd bookemdano. Then he should play them also. I mean if you record a tape in LP on JVC HR-S9700EU ... and then wanna view it later, my opinion is that its not okay if he wont playback it. If you know what i mean. If a VCR has options to record a tape in SP/LP/EP then he should also be able to playback same speed when you wanna watch that tape later.
Yes of course that's how it works. Objectively, the best device to play back a tape is the device that recorded it in the first place (whether that is a VCR or camcorder). But that is often not an option--old VCRs die and are replaced, or people send their tapes off to someone else to transfer them. VHS tape speeds are pretty standardized between decks. SP is the most compatible, but most consumer VCRs can play all 3--it's just that some are better at tracking the slower speeds than others. Ironically it seems that the decks that have the most trouble with EP/LP are the more expensive ones. Cheap decks often have no problem with them.

You will find that LordSmurf and others here who do a lot of capture often have to keep several different decks of different brands on-hand because some tapes play well in one deck but not another. Yes, in theory tapes should play the same in any VHS VCR, but in practice this is sometimes not the case. It's not a huge problem--as you said the vast majority of your tapes play fine in your JVC.
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  #11  
02-20-2021, 11:22 AM
kreso05 kreso05 is offline
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Unfortunately i dont know how tapes were recorded, because they are not my personal VHS tapes. Iv also tried to switch TBC off, on VCR and turn Video stabilization ON but results were same. Iv tried everything i know on VCR and remote control and it just wont listen... But right now when i review the tape, first minute of a tape is great ( looks like a dream, ) everything is good and then noise starts and it last through entire movie. So il ask my selfe again,, why its not like that from start. Why is good on start first minute and then noise starts...i really dont know. And to answer your last reply ( btw thank you for all quick answers ) If they have problems with EP/LP,,, why when i put VHS tape in cheap VCR it says that he plays it in SP ? I dont get that. If i placed VHS tape in cheap VCR and it sayd LP PLAY i would be ' okay my JVC wont play LP ' but it says SP,,, i had no problem with SP on JVC... i dont know
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  #12  
02-20-2021, 11:51 AM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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I'm not sure that every VCR properly changes the display to show the playback speed--some might just show whatever mode the deck is in for recording. Try hitting the LP button your JVC--does the display now say LP? Then put in one of your problem tapes and play it. Does the display stay on LP or switch to SP?

If it switches to SP, then what you may have with that tape is that it was initially recorded in SP mode (the perfect part you mentioned) and then whatever VCR or camcorder recorded it was switched to LP mode. If that is the case and you listen to the VCR as it plays (or watch it with the top cover off) you should see/hear a change in the speed of the tape moving through the transport once the LP section is reached (and perhaps that corresponds with when the video is degraded).

If you don't hear or see any change in the tape speed then it could be a totally different problem (for instance, maybe the first part of that tape that looks good was recorded with a different VCR/cam than the one that recorded the parts that are problematic). Unfortunately, if they aren't your tapes then there's no way to really know.
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  #13  
02-20-2021, 01:28 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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The LG will show whatever speed it is playing back at, so if it's showing SP on the on-screen display it's playing SP, I have some similar ones. I don't think there would be color when fast-forwarding if it was LP either. I don't think it's an SP/LP thing. (and it's definetly not a PAL EP tape because that's very rare and would not play back properly on either vcr.)

I'm pretty sure is not an alignment issue, that gives very different symptoms, like a noise bar on top or bottom of the image that will move when adjusting tracking.

It looks an issue with reading the tracking from the control track on the tape, tho I don't know what the cause of it would be. If it happened on all tapes it would indicate that there was an issue with the control head or associated electronics, but if it's only on some tapes it's something else.

Maybe the control head is dirty or has some minor damage or wear and not picking the tracking signal as well as it ought to for whatever reason, and starts having trouble if that signal is a bit weak. It can sometimes help to fast forward and rewind the tape. I would also try cleaning the audio/control head, it's pretty straight forward, and not fragile like the video heads.
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  #14  
04-23-2021, 07:56 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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SP/EP button on remote, during play, change from auto tracking to manual tracking.

Why was the attached video so large? It should never be 1080p.

The heads looks dirty -- hopefully not damaged (probably not). A tape may have done it.

When a JVC has issues, you switch to a Panasonic for that tape. But that doesn't include something like this, where dirty heads in suspected. Not the same.

I doubt it's an LP issue. JVC PAL decks play LP just fine.

Or may be it's just the tape, or the batch of tapes.

Hard to say exactly with these sorts of issues, just gives suggestions for whatit may be.

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