Distortion issue only when using TBC?

[gvsu141]

Hello,

I am somewhat new to the VHS to Digital space, and have learned a great deal from this forum! I am currently working on converting some VHS outdoor footage using a JVC HR S9600-U with TBC. Capturing using a Hauppauge card, AmaRecTV and a Lagarith codec.

Overall, this setup has been working well for a few dozen captures. However, I'm running into issues when using the TBC on the current batch of VHS I am working on. There is massive distortion/jitter? occasionally occurring on the top edge of the video, though it impacts the whole frame.

In total, This issue is there on 5 of the 17 tapes I am converting. These were all recorded on the same media, around 1995. If I turn TBC off, this issue goes away - though the rest of the quality obviously suffers. If I rewind & try to record again, this happens at the same frames, though sometimes worse than others. Some tapes it only happens for a few seconds, and others 20-30% of the video.

Is this a physical issue with the media, or possibly with the JVC? Or can something be done to correct this? I have not had this issue with other projects.

I have attached a raw short clip, and also linked to google drive where a slightly larger copy is due to upload file size limits.

Thanks!

Google Drive link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sQI...usp=share_link

[gvsu141]

Update -

It's been brought to my attention this is flagging/tearing. This is giving me the right keywords to research more.

It sounds like a good path would be to look into the Panasonic DMR-ES10/ES15 as a passthrough.

[themaster1]

Check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMA5aH_olAQ

[lordsmurf]

That Youtube video is very misleading, so don't read too much into it.
I'll reply again later.

[Hushpower]

As an aside, you've exported your Trim clip as Uncompressed RGB; I suggest you use Lagarith to post here, quality will be maintained and you'll get more video for the 99mb limit.

[gvsu141]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

As an aside, you've exported your Trim clip as Uncompressed RGB; I suggest you use Lagarith to post here, quality will be maintained and you'll get more video for the 99mb limit.

Ah, good point. I didn't even think of that! Here's a 3x longer version using Lagarith.

[latreche34]

I had this happened to me before when I had a different capture card but not 100% sure if it applies to you, Try this before you rule it's a tape fault. When all devices are cooled down, maybe first thing in the morning, Try to capture that tape right where the problem had occurred before, If it plays fine you have a heat issue, ventilate your capture card, make sure there is enough aeration around the VCR. If the problem appears right away then it is the tape.

[gvsu141]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

I had this happened to me before when I had a different capture card but not 100% sure if it applies to you, Try this before you rule it's a tape fault. When all devices are cooled down, maybe first thing in the morning, Try to capture that tape right where the problem had occurred before, If it plays fine you have a heat issue, ventilate your capture card, make sure there is enough aeration around the VCR. If the problem appears right away then it is the tape.

Thanks, sounds like we had the same idea. I tested this as well, with no impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

That Youtube video is very misleading, so don't read too much into it.
I'll reply again later.

Thanks! Any input is appreciated. Am I correct in thinking trying a passthrough with ES10/ES15 could help?

It looks like the media this was recorded on were low quality - no markings anywhere, and tapes just feel cheap/flimsy.

-- merged --

Update:

I recorded the attached clip again using an ES15 as passthrough, with TBC off on the JVC and ES15 recommended settings found in other forum posts.

Here is the result. The tearing/flagging is gone, though you can still see some occasional artifacts at the top. The picture isn't as crisp as using TBC in the JVC, but much better than having the tearing/flagging, or no TBC at all.

See attached clip (without audio)

[lordsmurf]

That's exactly it. You use ES10/15 type when the net effect (net gains) is better video. Only then. ES10/15 is not a TBC, not magic. It is respected for the ability to remove tearing, but it has quality reducing side effects. Hence why it's not suggested as an "always in the workflow" unit, nor is it a TBC, nor TBC replacement. It's a DVD recorder with unique passthrough for the strong+crippled line TBC.

BTW, tearing is usually due to initial line length differences, and VCR TBCs tend to fail more in those scenarios. The outcome is tearing. All TBCs differ, and that includes the JVC and Panasonic S-VHS VCR line TBCs. The ES10/15 is not better, just different, and different in a way that helps in this situation.