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  #141  
01-07-2015, 11:51 AM
GrantGreat04 GrantGreat04 is offline
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I'm looking to convert a bunch of VHS (not S-VHS) tapes to DVD. I was going to invest in a JVC SR-S365U and a KEYWEST BVTBC10 TBC. I don't have $500 to spend on this project, but from my research online I believe these two components will be substantially better than just the average VHS player. The JVC I mentioned above doesn't have the remote with it...that shouldn't be a problem should it? My DVD recorder is a Toshiba D-R410. Some of these DVD's I will go ahead and convert to digital video by ripping them to a PC then importing them into Adobe Premiere or something like that, but some of them will just stay on DVD. Your thoughts and suggestions are welcome. Thanks
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  #142  
01-07-2015, 12:09 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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the Keywest BVTBC10 is ok , ive used them
the SR-S365U is ok,and much better than a average consumer deck, but it does not have a TBC
for not much more you can probably find an SR-V10 or SR-V101

never use cleaning tapes - they don't do squat
do a manual cleaning with chamois and alcohol
and remove the auto head cleaner if it is still present
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  #143  
01-07-2015, 12:10 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The JVC SR-S365U is an OK player, but AFAIK it has no line-level tbc. Correct me on that if not so. If your tapes are 6-hour jobs, you'll get much better playback with a different line of VCR's.

I have to suggest that capturing old VHS tapes directly to DVD is far from the best way of doing it, but it's certainly convenient. DVD is a lossy format -- after editing or corrections, you'll have to re-encode. That can be a serious quality hit and Premiere isn't the best tool for it.

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Originally Posted by GrantGreat04 View Post
Some of these DVD's I will go ahead and convert to digital video by ripping them to a PC then importing them into Adobe Premiere or something like that
? ? ? DVD is already a digital format (MPEG2). What are you converting them to?
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  #144  
01-07-2015, 01:25 PM
GrantGreat04 GrantGreat04 is offline
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Originally Posted by volksjager View Post
for not much more you can probably find an SR-V10 or SR-V101
Thanks for the response. Well, I checked and it looks like the SR V10/V101 will cost me a little over $100 more. Not sure if I can afford that or not...
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  #145  
01-07-2015, 01:39 PM
GrantGreat04 GrantGreat04 is offline
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Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
The JVC SR-S365U is an OK player, but AFAIK it has no line-level tbc. Correct me on that if not so. If your tapes are 6-hour jobs, you'll get much better playback with a different line of VCR's.

I have to suggest that capturing old VHS tapes directly to DVD is far from the best way of doing it, but it's certainly convenient. DVD is a lossy format -- after editing or corrections, you'll have to re-encode. That can be a serious quality hit and Premiere isn't the best tool for it.

? ? ? DVD is already a digital format (MPEG2). What are you converting them to?
You're right, the SR-S365U doesn't have TBC. Yeah, some of them are 6 hour tapes but not all of them. I'd like something with good playback for any mode.

I realize that going straight to DVD isn't the absolute best way to do it, I just wanted to confirm that doing it with the setup I originally mentioned would be noticeably better than just using a consumer grade VCR. I have well over 100 tapes to convert, so I just don't have time to import everything directly to the computer and have to jack with burning everything individually.

Also, I didn't clarify very well before. I meant that some portions of a select few tapes I would want a digital file on the computer (but definitely the minority). That's why I mentioned it. I know DVD is digital already The main thing here is that I would like better than just consumer VCR quality, but I can't break the bank.
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  #146  
01-07-2015, 08:49 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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At this point the only way I see to improve your tape-to-DVD recordings is to resolve the major weak point in your setup -- that is, you have no line TBC. The TBC you mentioned is a full-frame synchronizing tbc, which has no effect on the more visible and annoying problems from line timing errors within frames. The frame TBC will probably help with copy protection. The Toshiba recorder has an elementary line-level cleaner (a sort of "line tbc", better than nothing) but using the frame tbc between your tape player and your recorder will defeat the line tbc in the Toshiba, which will see no errors in the signal from the frame tbc. And the JVC won't handle long-play tapes any better than cheap vcr's will.

Solve both problems with a rebuilt Panasonic AG-1980. Several sources. Here is one, where I purchased two 1980's: http://www.tgrantphoto.com/sales/ind...fessional-vcrs
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  #147  
01-07-2015, 09:20 PM
GrantGreat04 GrantGreat04 is offline
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Ok, thanks for the additional info. So are you saying if I got the Panasonic you mentioned that I wouldn't need any additional external line TBC? Also, would the JVC HR-S7800U be any better for playing the long-play tapes since it has an internal TBC? Or are all JBC's bad at playing those?
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  #148  
01-07-2015, 09:43 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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the 7800 is a good deck but for EP tapes the Panasonic AG-1980 is best and it has a very powerful TBC
if you only want one VCR i would go with an AG-1980
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  #149  
01-07-2015, 10:23 PM
GrantGreat04 GrantGreat04 is offline
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For some reason I had a brain fart and was thinking that the home movies that I'm wanting to convert were in EP... they are in fact in SP So I guess the 7800 would be suitable then? Would I need any additional external line TBC with that deck? Also would an old Canopus ADVC-100 be suitable for importing the video to a computer if I go that route? Or will I lose quality doing that? Thanks everyone for your contributions. I appreciate it

Last edited by GrantGreat04; 01-07-2015 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Added a question
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  #150  
01-08-2015, 07:04 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Hmm, don't understand what you mean by "import" with an ADVC. It doesn't "import" anything it records and re-encodes various source. If you want to record directly to DVD with your Toshiba, you won't need a PC capture card. The Toshiba can make cleaner or just-as-good MPEG2 encodes as the Canopus.

MPEG2 is copied directly to a computer using various software that can properly convert MPEG2 in a VOB container to plain vanilla MPEG2 without re-encoding or re-recording. One such free app is VOB2MPG, there are others. Or you can copy home-made VIDEO_TS folders in their entirety to a PC and play them with the original menus, chapters, etc., if that's what you want. If you want cut short segments, join to other segments, you'll need a smart-rendering MPEG editor on your PC.

Considering your previous statements, not quite sure where the Canopus comes in. If you're thinking that it's better to get VHS into your computer, it's no better that your DR-410 at recording VHS. The 7600 VCR is a good player, but be prepared for some soft images and visible motion blur from its noise reduction. I think the JVC 9600 series was mentioned earlier (?), which is a better and more robust player.

It's just my guess, but I assume you won't mind the darkish-gray edge borders and the head-switching noise at the bottom of VHS recordings.
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  #151  
01-08-2015, 08:59 AM
GrantGreat04 GrantGreat04 is offline
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I am now considering going into the computer with a PC capture card. How big of a difference in quality are we talking about if I do that as opposed to straight through the DVD recorder? I asked about the Canopus because a buddy of mine has one and he said I could borrow it. Good to know that it's no better than my DVD Recorder. I'll scratch that idea. I'm sorry to be so back and forth, but I'm having difficulty making up my mind as I'm on a relatively small budget. I'd love to get the 9600 but I just can't afford to pay $400 for it. I mentioned the JVC SR-S365U earlier because it can be had for about $65. I guess I really just need suggestions for the best way to do this on a budget and get better than consumer grade VCR quality. My apologies for being such a noob.
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  #152  
01-08-2015, 10:44 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Well....the "best way", as you just now specified, is not to capture VHS to DVD in the first place. VHS and other analog source are "best" captured to a PC using losslessly compressed YUY2 media. That's out of the question in this case, and you'd need better hardware and a different capture device anyway.

I'd save money, as the Canopus has no tbc despite its hype about it (there's plenty of experience in this and other forums to demonstrate that the mythical Canopus "tbc" either doesn't exist or does nothing). The Toshiba at least has an elementary line and frame sync circuit and a decent MPEG2 encoder. You can live without an external frame tbc if you don't have copy protected tapes. The JVC isn't a prosumer job but it's above the run of cheap VCR's and was designed for conference and teaching use. It's certainly not a '101', 7600, or AG-1980, but it should suffice within your budget. If you want to do any MPEG editing, there are free and paid budget-level smart rendering editors. Transferring a VOB recording to a PC is a matter of free software that does it properly without re-recording or re-encoding, which takes a lot less time than recording a new copy.
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  #153  
01-09-2015, 09:37 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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And I forgot to add:

While the Toshiba does have some form of tbc/frame sync, it's nowhere near as powerful as a tbc-equipped VCR and external frame TBC. For "problem tapes", the very basic Toshiba tbc might not suffice. Only way to tell is to make a recording and check it out. If you have copy-protected tapes, the Toshiba won't record them without a frame tbc between that and your VCR.
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  #154  
01-09-2015, 10:01 AM
GrantGreat04 GrantGreat04 is offline
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Thanks for the advice! I think that's all the questions I have for now
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  #155  
03-14-2015, 06:52 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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this is a list i have compiled of good NTSC prosumer TBC equipped decks
i have personally owned / tested most of these.

Panasonic AG-5710
Panasonic AG-1970
Panasonic AG-1980
Panasonic NV-SB770
Panasonic NV-SB800
Panasonic NV-SB900
Panasonic NV-SB1000
Marantz MV-8300 (JVC clone)
Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U
GoVideo SDV-650 (JVC clone)
Phillips VR-1000 (JVC clone)
JVC HR-S7500U
JVC HR-S7600U
JVC HR-S7800U
JVC HR-S7900U
JVC HR-S9500U
JVC HR-S9600U
JVC HR-S9800U
JVC HR-S9900U
JVC HR-S9911U
JVC SR-V10U
JVC SR-V101U
JVC SR-VS10U
JVC SR-VS20U
JVC SR-VS30U
JVC HR-DVS1U
JVC HR-DVS2U
JVC HR-DVS3U
JVC SR-MV30
JVC SR-MV40
JVC SR-MV45
JVC SR-MV50
JVC SR-MV55
JVC SR-VDA300U
JVC SR-VD400U
JVC HM-DH30000U
JVC HM-DH40000U
JVC HM-DH5U
JVC HM-DT100U
JVC HM-HDS1U
JVC SR-W5U / HR-W5
JVC SR-W7U / HR-W7

Last edited by volksjager; 03-14-2015 at 07:06 PM.
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  #156  
03-27-2015, 05:39 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Hi Jarvis, hope you're still around to answer this. I've been revisiting this thread recently, tyring to imprive the information found here. After re-reading your post, I have some questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvis View Post
the 9400E also appears no different from the NTSC model, however the 9600EU and 9700EU are at least cosmetically different to the 9600U/9800U/9900U. Both are certainly high-end, with all the bells and whistles, and their design is unlike any other I've seen. I don't know all the differences feature-wise,
The PAL 9400 and PAL 9500 lack both TBC and Picture Mode (PM) filters, from what I've read. Both types of filters given the JVC its exceptional NR abilities. The TBC has "DNR", but the PM has NR as well. And the NR is the entire reason to own the JVC decks. Can you confirm or deny this?

Quote:
but the 9600EU does lack some recording features of the 9600U, which are instead found on the 9700EU; apart from that, and very minor cosmetic changes, the 9700EU appears to be the same machine as its predecessor.
Good info. Added. Thanks.

Quote:
Finally, the 9850EU resembles neither the 9800U or 9900U; being the last of the PAL 9000s, it's identical to the 9911U which is also the last of its series.
Good info. Added. Thanks.

Quote:
Unlike the 4mb TBC found on the NTSC 9000 models, all PAL versions are limited to 2mb - although they probably don't need more anyway.
Correct. The RAM amount is not as important as the RAM style. DDR, for example, is better than plain SDRAM. So 2mb of one can be equal to or better than 4mb on another.

Quote:
I know this post isn't particularly useful,
Nope, very useful.

Quote:
and I've read that the 9911U (9850EU) and the last of the classics like HR-S7965EK/HR-S8965EK (2003) are of inferior build. But then there's more risk buying older VCRs.
I've been using a 7865EK for 11+ years now, and it's still excellent.

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  #157  
03-27-2015, 06:35 PM
Quasipal Quasipal is offline
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I don't see much about the PAL JVC HR-S8700EK deck. From 2000, all the filters and of course the switchable TBV/DNR. I think that there was a 8600 too from the previous generation - that one looked the same but had dynamic drum.
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  #158  
08-12-2015, 01:42 PM
ShadowChaos ShadowChaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
The SR-V101U is in the same situation -- cheaped out a bit.
Now, why the JVC SR-VS10U over the JVC SR-VS30U. I am considering this deck as my top pick for transferring VHS/VHS-c via 1394 to my pc. Is this pretty much the best (or at least a pretty good one?)

Can anyone recommend this or another VCR with 1394 to capture from the VHS deck? (I think this is pretty much the only way to capture a vhs tape via firewire)

Thanks.
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  #159  
08-12-2015, 03:02 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
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either is fine
but the 10 is better built - JVC started to cheap out on later decks
the early ones either had more metal/less plastic and/or where built in Japan instead of Malaysia/China
if you dont need the Mini-DV drive then i highly recommend NOT using a combo deck
they have twice as many things to fail and do more often than single purpose decks
probably the best JVC deck with firewire are the HM-DH5U and the HM-DT100U

i dont recommend using the 1394 -
ive tried and result are not as good as an AIW via S-Video
and using firewire means you cant use an inline TBC
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  #160  
08-15-2015, 11:33 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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The MiniDV/SVHS combo decks likely output DV format video via firewire. The DVHS decks encode to a MPEG-2 Transport Stream with 256kbit MPEG-1 Layer 2 (mp2) audio. I think the bit rate is set at whatever the DVHS record speed is set at. STD mode DVHS recording is 14.1Mbit/sec.
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