Quantcast Staticy audio... - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
12-30-2009, 03:04 PM
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When I restore my audio in Soundforge, I've been using the Hiss Removal 2, and then 1 as you recommended that I do, however I've noticed that while the audio itself sounds good, it's louder and more clear than the original VHS video, it has a staticy background noise to it...what is causing that and what filters should I use? Is it from using maybe 1 too many filters, should I stick with just hiss removal 1 or 2 instead of using them both?
What other filters can I use to stop this from happening? I notice this staticy noise happens more on videos that are master copies that i turn into dvds
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  #2  
12-30-2009, 05:21 PM
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This was caused by poor tracking on the VCR. Or a damaged HiFi track. In most cases, it's the latter. The fix is to capture the video on the LINEAR/MONO track. Good VCRs from JVC and Panasonic have this option, the high-end S-VHS units often suggested here http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/vid...k-hardware.htm

After the fact, you can only fix this in software. Not the ideal solution, but it can work.

What you do is run the audio through Goldwave, and select the "pop/click" filter. While this was made for LP records, it works great on static. Set it to the "aggressive" setting. In some cases, you need to lower the attack time even more, increments of 50 at a time. If you do too much aggression, you'll get odd audio, so be careful dropping it below the default "aggressive" setting -- which I believe is set to "600" (don't have Goldwave on this computer, can't check it right this minute).

There is an excellent example of this process at http://www.tvpreservation.com/forum/...-vhs-7161.html
Download those files, listen to the before/afters.

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  #3  
12-30-2009, 07:31 PM
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So, should I capture every video in mono? I was always under the impression that mono meant that the audio would only come out of one speaker instead of two? Am I wrong about that?
As I said, I use the Hiss cut 2, then 1 as u suggested and sometimes 0, but lately just the 2 and 1 and the audio is a lot louder then the original vhs video, does that mean I'm doing it right?
I've never used the pop and click filter in Goldwave, should I add that to my workflow with every video that I do? If so, would I use that before I take it into Soundforge?
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12-30-2009, 07:55 PM
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The encoding/storage of audio doesn't relate to the speakers. You can push 5/1 through one speaker, or 1/0 through 5 speakers.

There are some pieces of crappy equipment and software that put audio through one speaker and call it "mono" --- but that's just a mess.

A lot of audio -- Cartoon Network, for example -- is mono. They don't broadcast in stereo. "Stereo" means you have two independent channels of audio. Mono means there is only on track -- but you can have the same track stored in both L and R channels. Proper equipment does that.

Technically, you can non-HiFi stereo, too -- but I don't see much of that. The JVC VCR will output the linear/mono track into both channels. The HiFi track is on a portion of the tape that is first to go, in term of poor tracking and aging. The linear track (which generally stores mono) is safer, in this regard.

Only use Goldwave when needed. Add it to the workflow on an "as needed" basis.

If the audio is "a lot louder", then it sounds like something is wrong -- is the gain being adjusted upwards? Maybe you hit a slider? Reload the preset by picking something else, then going back to Hiss Cut 2. If anything, it should lose some volume, because you're carving away frequency.

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  #5  
12-30-2009, 09:05 PM
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No, I'm not hitting any sliders or anything like that...the audio actually sounds better with it louder, but it's just some traces of staticy background in the commentators voices, and i notice sometimes they sound a tad echoey...
I have the Panasonic AG 1980 vcr, so, should I for now on set the vcr to capture every video in mono?
Should i use maybe some of the flescher munson filters, or anything else or just stick with the hiss cuts 2, 1, 0?
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  #6  
12-30-2009, 09:15 PM
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As a random side note, those "flescher munson filters" are actually hiss cuts based on one of the SF-default Flescher-Munson (FM) filters. The FM itself is an equal loudness contour, based on research of Flescher and Munson some 75+ years ago. More on that at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletche...3Munson_curves

The actual "filter" in use here is the SoundForge Paragraphic EQ filter ---- what I've provided are just some added presets. Well "some" is more like 100+ presets!

The FM-based dehiss presets are good in many ases. again, your ears must guide you. There is no rule to audio, aside from trained ears doing what sounds best.

Yeah, use the front panel, and press the AUDIO button. I'm not near a VCR right now, I forget the exact name of it. It's not the slider, those are for recording. The LED readout front panel will show the changes of audio output (HiFi L/R, L only, R only, mono) as you press the button. It's identical to how the JVC VCRs act when you press the AUDIO OUT on the remote, and it changes the JVC LED displays.

Only do this as needed. It will slightly muffle audio. But muffle is better than static/buzzing. No buzzing/static = no use of mono (and therefore no muffle to counteract).

You counteract muffle with High Restore EQ presets.


Again ... all about the ears. Make it better overall in the end (even if it gets worse first in some of the middle steps). Test, trial, listen and make judgment calls.

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  #7  
12-30-2009, 09:34 PM
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The audio does sound lower when I preview the hiss cut 2 in SF before I select it..there's no sound of the static or anything like that on my computer, but after I do it in SF and then convert it to AC3, then make the dvd, that's when it sounds louder on my tv and the static and echo shows up..why do you think it's doing that? When Im previewing it in SF, it sounds like u say it should, it sounds lower..but after I burn the dvd is when it sounds louder.
As far as the VCR goes, all that is on the front panel is the mono off, on option (i have it off) linear audio rec, the options are l, r, linear, its set to linear , hi/fi linear max, off and on, its set to off
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12-30-2009, 09:56 PM
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Converting to AC3 --- that's it. It might be "correcting" the db levels. Which method are you using for AC3 conversion? Method/software. May need to switch you, or tweak the settings not to do it (or not do it as much). The lower volume hides the noise some. This is a good trick, as long as everything is normal volume.

This is why I correct on high-end speakers, too -- TV speakers can hide more audio flaws, like weak hiss.

If I had a photo of the font panel of a Panasonic, I could point out the button. It's a small block button on the flip-down part. Front row, too, I believe, closest to you (farthest from VCR). I think you're looking at the wrong thing.

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  #9  
12-30-2009, 10:06 PM
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I know you posted a photo of the front of my vcr after I first got it, you took a pic of yours and you circled with different colors what settings I needed to set it to, I set the settings to what you told me to based off that picture, and I haven't touched them since. The post is on this site somewhere...it's probably about a year old because I got the vcr around the first of this year.
As far as how I'm converting to AC3, I'm using the TMPEG Sound Player...remember, you made a guide for me to how to do it for that program, and that's what I've been using ever since..I have the settings in the program set to what you told me to use for it based on the guide you wrote..channel mode 2.0, Sample Rate 48kHz, and 384kbps
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12-30-2009, 10:57 PM
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Yeah, I looked but could not find it. I answer so many posts from so many people -- on multiple sites, even -- that I can't remember a year old post.

You, however, may stand a better chance of finding it, since you remember more of what the post was about, when it was, etc.

I swear I don't have anything installed on this laptop.... ack... I can't look at the TSP settings. Not at the office, for obvious reasons. Look for anything that might change the db or normalizatin, and disable it. I don't know that any option is there, but worth a look.

You might even consider going back to a freeware, although TDA should have been better. Aften (@ http://aften.sourceforge.net for download) uses a different kind of AC3 encoder. It's a command-line app with a GUI available (attached to this post). In fact, the attached zip seems to have both GUIs inside it.

I have not used it yet, so you can't ask me anything on it. I'll be learning just like you, if you want my advice on it.

For the sake of humor, I refer you to this image:

comp-exp.gif

Nice, huh?

Let me know how that goes, if you want to try other conversion methods. The only other method I can think of is the Besweet method, but I think you already had some issues with that one. Or the FFMPEG method, just to hear if/how it changes your audio going to AC3.

And the standard attachment statement:
If you're not sure what to do with these ZIP or RAR files, then read this help post.




Attached Files
File Type: zip Aften+EncWAVToAC3GUI+AftenGUI.zip (2.02 MB, 0 downloads)

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  #11  
12-30-2009, 11:43 PM
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Nice picture, I like that, I'm sure I've had you go thru all those steps many times in all my posts the last year trying to help me lol. I tried my best to troubleshoot this before I posted about it, but it's tricky because in SF I don't hear the problem, and you're thinking it's in the AC3 conversion, so I dno't hear the prob until I finish the DVD, then I have to go back and remake it and guess on the filters, and it ends up being a waste of blank dvds and time quite frankly.
As far as the VCR goes, in the black buttons you're talking abuot, the only audio ones are audio out, audio dub, insert, those are the only buttons that I can see having anything to do with audio that are there.
I'd like to stick with the TMPEG since it's easy to use and I've always used it since you referred me to it, I was thinking..do you think it might help to change the 384kbps to 256 or 320 in tmpeg for the ac3?
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  #12  
12-31-2009, 12:34 AM
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For a lot of this stuff, consider it a learning process. Handle the easiest AND least important videos first --- you'll make mistakes, not do as well. By the time you get to more important and harder videos in the project, you'll be doing good. I don't always go back and redo older projects -- that's just a vicious OCD cycle that's easy to get sucked into.

Refer to the above chart (hahaha!) and press a button on the VCR. Look at the VCR LED front panel, and look at the audio meters. They will change on the right button. If I was at the office, I'd take a photo, but I'm not. I'm going off memory for a number of things for a couple of weeks here. Trying not to go in if I don't have to (mostly due to being sick).

The 384k is there to prevent distortion or artifacts from re-encoding of restored audio --- so no, don't change it. Lower bitrate will sound worse. Bitrate has nothing to do with volume.

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  #13  
01-03-2010, 11:53 AM
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I've done a few more videos, and I've noticed that just using Hiss Cut 2 only seems to sound better, with less echo and static then using Hiss Cut 2, 1 then 0. But I also remember you saying earlier that it's pretty rare to just have 1 filter work...it can work sometimes, but I should usually go with 2, 1, and maybe 0, which is what you said is the order that you use them.
So, do you think I should try to adjust those settings on the VCR, or maybe try to find another AC3 program instead of the TMPEG? Or should I maybe uninstall and reinstall that one?
Do you think it's odd that just hiss cut 2 seems to be working best?
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01-03-2010, 05:11 PM
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I don't think it's odd --- no, not at all. The Hiss Cut 2 is a different carving from the others. Sometimes only it can affect frequencies that need cutting/adjusting. Run it once, run it twice -- that's fine. If you need to run it 3+ times, then look for another filter, maybe. Or start experimenting, learn how to alter what's there and make your own, too!

I've never had that issue with TSP (TMPGEnc Sound player). If it were me, I'd just skip it for now and use something else. Go back to it later on another project.

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01-03-2010, 08:37 PM
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For clarification...when you said run it once, or twice, did you mean run Hiss Cut 2 twice, or Hiss Cut 2 then 1, as you told you you do...that is what you use, correct?
Well, what do you think is the best ac3 transferer to use? And what's the easiest to use as TMPGe was?
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  #16  
01-03-2010, 09:15 PM
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Whatever sounds good.
  1. Hiss Cut 2,
  2. Hiss Cut 2 again
  3. something else
  4. etc.
TSP was the easiest. Experiment with Aften or follow one of the other guides for AC3 conversion found on the forum, for now.

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  #17  
01-03-2010, 09:51 PM
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Like I said, they all sound good on here, I don't hear any errors when Im testing them on here, it's only after I make the DVD that the errors appear, and by that time I'm kinda out of luck
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  #18  
01-03-2010, 10:42 PM
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Then your computer speakers may not be as good as the TV set -- or there is a big volume discrepancy between the TV and computer. Turn up the volume on the computer when restoring.
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  #19  
01-12-2010, 09:45 PM
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Still having problems with this. I notice a lot of times the fans in the background sound very...loud and maybe over digital sounding..if that makes any sense..i noticed that happened on a video when i did hiss cut 2 twice then hiss cut 1 twice

My new q is a video that im doing is 3 hrs and 40 and i remember u said for a video over 3 hrs ill have to chop the audio up and restore it that way and i dont want to do that, would it be ok if i split it, convert it to wav and just put it to ac3 without restoring it in sf?
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  #20  
01-13-2010, 11:32 AM
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Upload some sample clips of the before and after. I want to hear this.

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