Canopus ADVC as just Y/C separator?

metaleonid · #1 12-29-2011, 03:32 AM

Hi Lordsmurf,

I'm not sure in what thread to post it. Maybe it wouldn't even be legitimate thread. Anyway, as I mentioned in TBC thread I tried TBC AV Tool, but it didn't work well. However, I think I found something similar with my Philips card: the ability to select various recovery modes. I tried the capture yesterday from the VHS. I went 2 hours without any single dropped frame.

The only problem now I have is capturing from composite sources as my Philps based tuner card's comb filter is simply the worst.

But I was thinking to use Canopus ADVC-300 for just preview. Connect composite to ADVC, connect ADVC's S-Video to Philps Tuner card. Turn all the filters off other than Y/C separation. Canopus claims the preview undergoes ADC and then DAC, but in digital domain it doesn't compress to DV for preview. Do you know if I can use any test pattern to check whether I don't get compressed output for preview and that I don't get 4:1:1 color space for preview?

The other option for me is to install 3d comb filter inside my LD player, but this maybe problematic.

Thanks a lot. If you feel to post it in a thread, let me know what thread and I post it.

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lordsmurf · #2 12-29-2011, 03:44 AM

Quote:

If you feel to post it in a thread, let me know what thread and I post it.

One of the new moderator abilities from December is the ability to move PMs to new threads.

Quote:

Maybe it wouldn't even be legitimate thread.

Never going to happen. Pretty much any covered topic (digital video, digital audio, digital photography, print/web publishing, general computer use, etc) is a topic worthy of being considered a legitimate thread. Excluding spam, of course. We don't much care for spammers.

I think it's a great question.

Quote:

But I was thinking to use Canopus ADVC-300 for just preview. Connect composite to ADVC, connect ADVC's S-Video to Philps Tuner card. Turn all the filters off other than Y/C separation.

This would work, but only if...

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Canopus claims the preview undergoes ADC and then DAC, but in digital domain it doesn't compress to DV for preview.

Canopus used to claim a lot of dumb crap, in my opinion. I would not call them "lies" per se, but I don't necessarily think the information was unbiased, objective and genuine. It was always spun marketing versions, and not matter-of-fact speak to video editors and potential buyers. So you'd want to independently verify this in some way. Which leads me to the next quote...

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Do you know if I can use any test pattern to check whether I don't get compressed output for preview and that I don't get 4:1:1 color space for preview?

Compare frames with and without the Canopus box. See if the chroma is blurry. 4:1:1 is twice as blurry as 4:2:2. In addition, it likes to "cook" red and green (all colors, really, but mostly red and green). The contrast is changed (usually pushed, but sometimes pulled), and the tints alter (again, skewing red or green). I don't know that a test pattern is useful. I'd rather process some nice clean VHS footage, such as a commercial VHS tape; try both live-action and cartoons. One test won't suffice. Try several. Go ahead and do test patterns, in addition to video clips.

I've added "test patterns archive" to the site's to-do list.

Quote:

The other option for me is to install 3d comb filter inside my LD player, but this maybe problematic.

Yeah, that sounds like work. I try to avoid hardware mods, when possible. Not a fan. I do them, mind you, but generally dislike the unknown outcomes that can happen. Sometimes the best-planned mods don't work as theorized. Most do, but not all.

Hope that answers you.

metaleonid · #3 12-31-2011, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Compare frames with and without the Canopus box. See if the chroma is blurry. 4:1:1 is twice as blurry as 4:2:2. In addition, it likes to "cook" red and green (all colors, really, but mostly red and green). The contrast is changed (usually pushed, but sometimes pulled), and the tints alter (again, skewing red or green). I don't know that a test pattern is useful. I'd rather process some nice clean VHS footage, such as a commercial VHS tape; try both live-action and cartoons. One test won't suffice. Try several. Go ahead and do test patterns, in addition to video clips.

Do you think doing footage from the DVD player (cartoons) rather than from the VCR will do better job? Thank you.

lordsmurf · #4 12-31-2011, 06:27 PM

It would be a good additional test, but I'd still use VHS for testing, given how the ultimate end goal of the workflow is to convert videotapes (VHS, Betamax, Video8, etc). Several DVDs have hidden test patterns on the disc, such as Ice Age (a popular choice at Videohelp.com about 7 years ago, between a few of us). Avia (or Avia II) or any number of "test discs" are also good, for both test patterns and test clips.

metaleonid · #5 01-01-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

It would be a good additional test, but I'd still use VHS for testing, given how the ultimate end goal of the workflow is to convert videotapes (VHS, Betamax, Video8, etc). Several DVDs have hidden test patterns on the disc, such as Ice Age (a popular choice at Videohelp.com about 7 years ago, between a few of us). Avia (or Avia II) or any number of "test discs" are also good, for both test patterns and test clips.

So for the main test you suggest to do S-Video direct from the S-VCR to the capture card and compare to S-Video via ADVC-300 with all filters turned off to see if ADVC doesn't give DV compression and 4:1:1 color space. Correct?

My final goal workflow is to convert LaserDiscs outputting composite. But I understand that capturing has no test pattern to compare against.

kpmedia · #6 01-01-2012, 10:06 PM

Laserdisc is close to S-VHS or Super Beta.

metaleonid · #7 01-03-2012, 05:37 PM

Except that S-VHS has Y and C stored separately but LD not.

That's the big problem. I got an email from Canopus Account Executive Distribution Sales North America today telling me that analog source is converted to DV first. Analog output is DV based. See different people at Canopus tell me different things. I guess I will have to have either my LD player tweaked to have 3d comb filter installed or to buy the middle man with 3d comb filter. Or try to use Compro Videomate Ultra that has NEC 3d comb filter.